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-   -   Sleeves, etc '15-'16 (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/100340-sleeves-etc-15-16-a.html)

Freddy Fri Nov 13, 2015 02:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by letemplay (Post 969749)
...never seen beige by the way...

Grammar Police infraction aside, beige is the color of stock pre-wrap. Since pre-wrap now comes in all kindsa Crayola colors it isn't as popularly used anymore.

zm1283 Fri Nov 13, 2015 03:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsaddict (Post 969733)
School color is not easily defined for every official walking into a gym to know the official school colors of every school they work.

All you had to to was look at their uniforms and see if their headbands matched one of the colors on their uniforms. Not that difficult.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetMetFan (Post 969735)
They don't have to be the predominant color of the jersey, however they can be the predominant color of the jersey...

The actual rule you quoted says "Shall be black, white, beige or the predominant color of the jersey". What am I missing?

crosscountry55 Fri Nov 13, 2015 03:59pm

Not to kill the mood, but it's important to note (I think) that there are no color restrictions on knee braces (not to be confused with leg compression sleeves). Same lack of uniformity policy as for shoes and socks.


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Freddy Fri Nov 13, 2015 04:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by crosscountry55 (Post 969761)
Not to kill the mood, but...there are no color restrictions on knee braces...

Another mood killer not mentioned thus far on this thread: Compression Shorts.
They're under the same umbrella as undershirts -- must be same color as jersey.
Why they made compression shorts different than all the other matching items is beyond me.

I reserve the right to be wrong

bob jenkins Fri Nov 13, 2015 04:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetMetFan (Post 969735)
They don't have to be the predominant color of the jersey, however they can be the predominant color of the jersey...

Quote:

Originally Posted by zm1283 (Post 969758)
The actual rule you quoted says "Shall be black, white, beige or the predominant color of the jersey". What am I missing?

You're not missing anything (nor is JetMetFan).

The person who was (apparently) confused was either the OP or someone claiming to the OP that the bands/sleeves "MUST (or HAVE TO) be the color of the jersey" -- that's the requirement for T-shirts.

Camron Rust Fri Nov 13, 2015 04:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddy (Post 969764)
Another mood killer not mentioned thus far on this thread: Compression Shorts.
They're under the same umbrella as undershirts -- must be same color as jersey.
Why they made compression shorts different than all the other matching items is beyond me.

I reserve the right to be wrong

You might want to recheck that under 3-5-3b.

From last year's book (it changed slightly this year but I don't have that in an easily copy/paste form yet).
Quote:

ART. 3 . . . Arm sleeves, knee sleeves, lower leg sleeves and tights are permissible:
a. Anything worn on the arm and/or leg is a sleeve, except a knee brace, and shall meet the color restrictions.
b. The sleeves/tights shall be black, white, beige or the predominant color of the uniform and the same color sleeves/tights shall be worn by teammates.
c. All sleeves/tights shall be the same solid color.
d. Meet the logo requirements in 3-6.

bob jenkins Fri Nov 13, 2015 05:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 969768)
You might want to recheck that under 3-5-3b.

From last year's book (it changed slightly this year but I don't have that in an easily copy/paste form yet).

Compression shorts (covered under 3-5-7) are not the same as tights (3-5-3).

The issue of how you determine one from the other has been raised (without resolution, afaik) several times on these forums

Frankly, if I see it, it's a tight/sleeve. If I don't, I don't care what color it is. ;)

BillyMac Fri Nov 13, 2015 05:13pm

Stupid NFHS Fashion Police Rules ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddy (Post 969764)
Compression Shorts ... must be same color as jersey.

Not quite.

3-5-7: Compression shorts shall be a single solid color similar to the predominate color of the uniform ...

I believe that this was a change last year. 3-5-7 used to state that compression shorts shall be a single solid color similar to the predominant color of the pants ...

How about a definition of uniform?

BillyMac Fri Nov 13, 2015 05:19pm

You Have The Right To Remain Silent ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 969771)
Compression shorts ... tights ... The issue of how you determine one from the other has been raised several times on these forums

Best I can tell, if it's on the lower leg, or the knee (not a brace) it's tights. If it's on then upper leg, it's compression shorts. If it goes the way from the waist to the foot, it's probably tights.

But my statement above seems to be contradicted by 3-5-3-A: Anything worn on the arm and/or leg is a sleeve ... and shall meet the color restrictions.

Silly NFHS monkeys.

ODog Fri Nov 13, 2015 05:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by zm1283 (Post 969758)
All you had to to was look at their uniforms and see if their headbands matched one of the colors on their uniforms. Not that difficult.

Your reading comprehension needs a lot of work, as demonstrated by every post you've made in this thread, completely derailing it in the process.

It's not a matter of matching any color on the uniform. If you're not going the black/white/beige route, your bands/sleeves will have to match the predominant color.

BillyMac Fri Nov 13, 2015 06:04pm

Compression Shorts ??? You're On Your Own ...
 
Ignoring compression shorts, it simply comes down to this:

Headbands, wristbands, arm sleeves, knee sleeves, lower leg sleeves, and tights, shall be the solid color black, white, beige, or the predominant color of the jersey, and the same color for each item, and all participants. Anything worn on the arm, and/or the leg (except a knee brace), is defined as a sleeve. Only a single item may be worn on the head (with no extensions), and/or on each wrist. Sweatbands must be worn below the elbow. Rubber, cloth, or elastic bands, of any color, may be used to control hair. Undershirts must be similar in color to the uniform jersey, and shall not have frayed, or ragged edges.

Camron Rust Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 969771)
Compression shorts (covered under 3-5-7) are not the same as tights (3-5-3).

The issue of how you determine one from the other has been raised (without resolution, afaik) several times on these forums

Frankly, if I see it, it's a tight/sleeve. If I don't, I don't care what color it is. ;)

Exactly!

Nevadaref Sat Nov 14, 2015 05:12am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 969771)
Compression shorts (covered under 3-5-7) are not the same as tights (3-5-3).

The issue of how you determine one from the other has been raised (without resolution, afaik) several times on these forums

Frankly, if I see it, it's a tight/sleeve. If I don't, I don't care what color it is. ;)

The old NFHS definition of compression shorts was that they could not extend below the knee. If they did, then they were classified as tights, which used to be illegal.

Although tights are now legal, I still don't see any reason to alter the definition of compression shorts. So I'm sticking with the above the knee classification.

bob jenkins Sat Nov 14, 2015 07:52am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 969800)
The old NFHS definition of compression shorts was that they could not extend below the knee. If they did, then they were classified as tights, which used to be illegal.

Although tights are now legal, I still don't see any reason to alter the definition of compression shorts. So I'm sticking with the above the knee classification.

Saying that "compression shorts can not extend below the knee" (which is till in the book, I think), is NOT the same as saying "any garment that's above the knee is a compression short"

BillyMac Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:57am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 969800)
... compression shorts. So I'm sticking with the above the knee classification.

3-5-3-A: Anything worn on the arm and/or leg is a sleeve ... and shall meet the color restrictions.

Compression shorts are worn on the leg. They are not braces. Are they sleeves?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 969800)
I still don't see any reason to alter the definition of compression shorts.

3-5-7: Compression shorts shall be a single solid color similar to the predominate color of the uniform ...

Still waiting for a definition of uniform?

It doesn't say pants anymore, nor does it say jersey.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 969800)
The old NFHS definition of compression shorts was that they could not extend below the knee. If they did, then they were classified as tights, which used to be illegal.

According to the old NFHS definition, tights could also be above the knee, and, as such, legal, if the same color as the pants (shorts).

Old 3-5-7: Compression shorts/tights shall be a single solid color similar to
the predominant color of the pants/skirt; the length shall be above the knee.
Undergarments shall not extend below the pants/skirt.


Tights, above the knee, and the same color as the shorts (old rule), were never considered to be illegal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 969800)
I still don't see any reason to alter the definition of compression shorts.

In my opinion, the NFHS should remove all reference to compression shorts in the basketball rulebook.

The term tights, with the existing color restrictions, should cover everything (accept knee braces, shoes, and socks) worn on the leg. Tights that extend from the waist to the feet. Tights that extend from the waist to the knee. Tights that extend from the knee to the feet. Tights that are worn on the knee ... shall be the solid color black, white, beige, or the predominant color of the jersey, and the same color for each item, and all participants.

Perhaps the terms tights, and sleeves, in regard to the leg, should be interchangeable.

In any case, General Motors doesn't ask my advice about automobiles, even though I drive a Chevrolet, so why should the NFHS listen to my advice about basketball rules because I officiate basketball?

The NFHS did listen to my suggested change in the definition of goaltending (return outside of the cylinder to the definition), this past year, but that was minor compared to a "Fashion Police" issue such as this.

I understand that the NFHS, as the guardian of the game, wants to control what the players wear while playing basketball, we don't need a bunch of players dressed like clowns in the game, but these "Fashion" rules should be simple, and easy to enforce.

Quote:

Originally Posted by crosscountry55 (Post 969761)
Same lack of uniformity policy as for shoes and socks.

Bite your tongue.

Don't even think, or joke, about it.

Shoes can't have flashing lights on them.

Enough said.

End of story.

Period.

3.5 SITUATION C: May a team member wear: (a) shoes which have a light
mechanism or have lights which are activated by heel contact with the floor; or
(b) gloves? RULING: No, in both (a) and (b). In (a), the shoes may be worn if the
lights are deactivated. In (b), gloves are not needed to play the game and are not
considered to be appropriate.

Regarding upper leg equipment. I'm going to interpret on the side of player participating with any color upper leg equipment if I can find any rule that would seem to allow it.

With no NFHS definition of uniform, I will allow upper leg equipment to be the same color as the jersey, or the shorts, with no restrictions on same color for each item, and all participants, treating them like compression shorts.

Or, if it allows the player to participate, I will treat the upper leg equipment like sleeves/tights, the solid color black, white, beige, or the predominant color of the jersey, and the same color for each item, and all participants.

I'm not ignoring the issue, but I'm not taking a written test. These are real life, game conditions; and interpretations, and decisions, that have to be made.

Silly NFHS monkeys.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it, until I change my mind, or until my mind is changed.

Comments?


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