Correctable Error-Break Down

[Valley Man]

I get the clock stopped versus clock running thing. So give me a CE that the clock kept running.

Isn't "before the first dead ball becomes live actually the 2nd live ball" and "before the 2nd live ball" the same thing?

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Valley Man

I get the clock stopped versus clock running thing. So give me a CE that the clock kept running.
?

Clock is running, player shoots with foot clearly on the 3 point line. ball goes in and through basket---becomes dead. official mistakenly signals 3 points---error e. clock is still running.

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Clock is running, player shoots with foot clearly on the 3 point line. ball goes in and through basket---becomes dead. official mistakenly signals 3 points---error e. clock is still running.

Is not that a bookkeeping error, that can be corrected anytime during the game?

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

Is not that a bookkeeping error, that can be corrected anytime during the game?

See 2.10.1J--if the referee makes the mistake- signals 3 when he shouldnt or fails to signal 3 when he should that is correctable and must be done in time. If i signal 3 and it is a 3 but the scorer only records 2 that can be corrected at any time before final score approved.

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by BigCat

See 2.10.1J--if the referee makes the mistake- signals 3 when he shouldnt or fails to signal 3 when he should that is correctable and must be done in time. If i signal 3 and it is a 3 but the scorer only records 2 that can be corrected at any time before final score approved.

So, someone had to have evidence that the shooter's foot was "clearly" on the line and that the official "mistakenly" signaled a 3-point field goal. If that person was the calling official, or one of the official's partners, or the official scorekeeper, would that change the error into a bookkeeping error?

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

So, someone had to have evidence that the shooter's foot was "clearly" on the line and that the official "mistakenly" signaled a 3-point field goal. If that person was the calling official, or one of the official's partners, or the official scorekeeper, would that change the error into a bookkeeping error?

no.

[jpgc99]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

So, someone had to have evidence that the shooter's foot was "clearly" on the line and that the official "mistakenly" signaled a 3-point field goal. If that person was the calling official, or one of the official's partners, or the official scorekeeper, would that change the error into a bookkeeping error?

If the official scorekeeper is the only person that is telling me I was wrong in signalling 3 because the players foot was touching the line, I am not changing it. It is a 3.

If another official has information, he needs to blow his whistle and fix it within the CE time frame.

--

If I signal 3, and the scorekeeper only scores 2 points, this becomes a bookkeeping error that can be corrected at any time.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by jpgc99

If another official has information, he needs to blow his whistle and fix it within the CE time frame.

And 99% of the time, it will be whistled and corrected immediately. (at least here; I understand that some don't follow that procedure -- this isn't intended to invite debate on the merits of either procedure)

[Valley Man]

Originally Posted by Valley Man

Isn't "before the first dead ball becomes live actually the 2nd live ball" and "before the 2nd live ball" the same thing?

So back to this. Isn't before the 2nd live ball the same as during the 1st dead ball?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Valley Man

So back to this. Isn't before the 2nd live ball the same as during the 1st dead ball?

The first dead ball could be following a erroneously awarded 3-point goal.

[Valley Man]

I get that

But wouldn't the goal be the first dead ball .. erroneously or not

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Valley Man

I get that

But wouldn't the goal be the first dead ball .. erroneously or not

That is why when the error is made while the clock is running and ball dead they say the error can be corrected before the "second live" ball. Ball goes through basket. ball is dead. you erroneously signal 3. This could be construed as the first dead ball. maybe since the error occurred during this dead ball we shouldn't count it as the first dead ball? When they use the language before the "second live" ball we don't have to answer that question. The ball went through basket. ball dead. We know the first "live ball" happens when ball is at disposal of thrower in. Thrower in passes it inbounds and defense knocks it out of bounds. The ball is dead when it is out of bounds. Is it the first dead ball or the second dead ball? doesn't matter. We know when the ball is handed to the thrower in the ball becomes live again--the "second live ball." too late to fix the error.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Valley Man

I get that

But wouldn't the goal be the first dead ball .. erroneously or not

No, the first dead ball is while the ball is bouncing around under the basket waiting for team B to put it at its disposal for a throw-in.

The rest is explained one post above this one by BigCat.

[Valley Man]

Gotcha ... appreciate your explanation