Correctable Error-Break Down

[The_Rookie]

Discussion tonight at Assoc. meeting that resulted in confusion about correctable errors.

Looking for help on breaking down in an easy to understand way how to resume play and what action is wiped out between the time error occurs and when it is discovered.

Thanks!

[crosscountry55]

Though I don't have it in attachable form, I've seen the so-called "Dead-Live-Dead" diagram that helps some folks who learn better with pictures than words. Other than that, the best way to avoid confusion is to study and recognize the pattern in the plethora of 2-10 case plays.

Most CE situations are failure to award merited free throws because you or the table missed a 7/10 bonus threshold. No cancelling of anything in these situations; that's only in the less common situation of awarding unmerited FTs or shooting at the wrong basket. Points scored and time consumed prior to the recognition of a CE are never cancelled/changed. Don't go there.

To resume, use POI unless CE involves failure to award merited FTs and there has been no change in possession since the error was made.


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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

Though I don't have it in attachable form, I've seen the so-called "Dead-Live-Dead" diagram that helps some folks who learn better with pictures than words.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by The_Rookie

Discussion tonight at Assoc. meeting that resulted in confusion about correctable errors.

Looking for help on breaking down in an easy to understand way how to resume play and what action is wiped out between the time error occurs and when it is discovered.

Thanks!

Persistent study of the applicable rule.

"Before the 2nd live ball" is the most important phrase to remember.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by The_Rookie

Discussion tonight at Assoc. meeting that resulted in confusion about correctable errors.

Looking for help on breaking down in an easy to understand way how to resume play and what action is wiped out between the time error occurs and when it is discovered.

Thanks!

The easiest way to deal with them -- don't have them. Take your time, and then take some more time.

(I know that doesn't really help, and that sometimes despite our best effrots, the table really messes it up. But, it's still a good lesson -- even if some have to get into the mess before they learn it.)

[BigCat]

1. Was there a 2-10 error(one of the a-e)?
2. Was the clock running or stopped at the time of the error? very important. most errors made when clock stopped--official fails to give Ft or gives one to wrong player…or gives one when shouldn't.

3. If the clock was STOPPED when the error occurred it must be recognized DURING the first dead ball AFTER the clock has STARTED. (clock starts--then during first dead ball).

I think Billy and I discussed this last year. The diagram he posted is wrong when it says all errors must be corrected before the second live ball. If you send the wrong player to the line for 3 FTs the ball will become live 3 times. The error can still be corrected because the clock is stopped. The clock must start--then you look for first dead ball. must be recognized during that dead ball period.

4. If the clock was running at the time of the error and ball dead (made basket and you give a 3 point signal when player was clearly on the line) it must be recognized before the second live ball. When the ball is inbounded that is the first live ball. The error has to be discovered the next time ball is dead. If it becomes live again (2) it is too late.

I agree with Bob, the moral of the story is don't have correctable errors. Sometimes they can't be avoided because you may have a table that isn't good at keeping track of fouls etc. If the situation comes up think of the rules in 2-10 and replay what has happened in your head. You need to have good grasp of live ball and dead ball also. good luck.

[Scuba_ref]

Originally Posted by BigCat

4. If the clock was running at the time of the error and ball dead (made basket and you give a 3 point signal when player was clearly on the line) it must be recognized before the second live ball. When the ball is inbounded that is the first live ball. The error has to be discovered the next time ball is dead. If it becomes live again (2) it is too late.

This is not a CE, it can be fixed any time.

[Valley Man]

I get the clock stopped versus clock running thing. So give me a CE that the clock kept running.

Isn't "before the first dead ball becomes live actually the 2nd live ball" and "before the 2nd live ball" the same thing?

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Valley Man

I get the clock stopped versus clock running thing. So give me a CE that the clock kept running.
?

Clock is running, player shoots with foot clearly on the 3 point line. ball goes in and through basket---becomes dead. official mistakenly signals 3 points---error e. clock is still running.

[Valley Man]

Originally Posted by Valley Man

Isn't "before the first dead ball becomes live actually the 2nd live ball" and "before the 2nd live ball" the same thing?

So back to this. Isn't before the 2nd live ball the same as during the 1st dead ball?

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Scuba_ref

This is not a CE, it can be fixed any time.

It is a correctable error if the official screws up. in my example the official gave a 3 signal when shooter clearly on the line. That must be corrected in time etc.

If i raise a 3 point signal and the scorer only gives 2 points that error can be corrected any time. it is an error by the scorer. see case book play. 2.10.1j