A Merited T . . . or Not?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Freddy

Was merely trying to evoke discussion of Rule 10-3-6-f and whether it at all applies to the player begging to be credited for a foul he obviously didn't commit.
Not saying I'd call a T on it. Was just interested in engaging in a discussion of that rare situation.

No offense ... but this is not rare... and you should never have thought T even for a millisecond.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

... you should never have thought T even for a millisecond.

It is worth a millisecond of thought:

10-3-6-F: A player shall not: Commit an unsporting foul. This includes, but is not limited to, acts, or conduct such as: Faking being fouled, knowingly attempting a free throw, or accepting a foul, to which the player was not entitled.

And then, after that millisecond, the official decides not to charge the technical foul.

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I also see Lead calling across the lane in C's primary, the Lead count the bucket initially only to wave it off at the table, the Lead leaving the area of the foul with players still on the ground, Trail not paying attention to the player on the ground, the calling official walking while reporting, poor communication regarding the number of free throws, the calling official going opposite the table after reporting, and the official administering the FT's not going to the correct spot.

I think Lead should be looking here on this play but have a cadence whistle, especially at this point in the game. Yes it should be C who has the first crack but I think you have to get a foul if there is one, which I think there was.

I think the communication regarding the number of FTs is good because there may be confusion on this particular play, since it was first counted then wiped. Prevents a CE.

The calling official went across, I assume to get away from the coaches which should be an acceptable practice in this situation which he appears to communicate to his partner as he crosses.

Not sure why you think the new lead went to the wrong spot. What am I missing.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[jeremy341a]

What's wrong with the lead getting this. Isn't the offensive player in his primary when he leaps?

[Pantherdreams]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

It is worth a millisecond of thought:

10-3-6-F: A player shall not: Commit an unsporting foul. This includes, but is not limited to, acts, or conduct such as: Faking being fouled, knowingly attempting a free throw, or accepting a foul, to which the player was not entitled.

I find all of these examples problematic. I've got no problem T'ing up unsportsmanlike conduct but they either need to word the examples better or come up with better ones.

I player cannot "fake being fouled" since a foul is a judgement about level of contact made by the official. A player could fake contact that doesn't actually happen, but that its only a foul once its called. If I've recognized there was no contact then there is not a foul call. A player can't fake being fouled, since you only refs can determine if you are fouled.

I have no idea what players do or do not know. So unless they tell me I know I'm not supposed to to shoot that and did anyway . . .

I didn't know players could accept or decline fouls. The only way a foul ends up on a player (in error or not) is if I assign it. They are not accepting or declining fouls.

I'm not trying to be obtuse. I understand they don't want deception/cheating/ lying/ diving etc. In the game. The language and examples are not letter of the law stating what they want them to mean.

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

I player cannot "fake being fouled" since a foul is a judgement about level of contact made by the official. A player could fake contact that doesn't actually happen, but that its only a foul once its called. If I've recognized there was no contact then there is not a foul call. A player can't fake being fouled, since you only refs can determine if you are fouled.

I think you're over thinking this part -- I don't think this is unclear. The player can fake the contact or the effect of the contact to make the referee think it was a foul. I don't think it is there for regular game events but for the you-have-got-to-be- $%$%-kidding-me scenarios.

I've seen it called exactly once, in a high school game I was watching and happened to have a perfect angle. Defender faked to draw a charge with a huge groan and flop. Unfortunately for the defender, the referee was a the right angle to see there was a full foot of space between the two players when he went down in agony . . .

[Pantherdreams]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

I think you're over thinking this part -- I don't think this is unclear. The player can fake the contact or the effect of the contact to make the referee think it was a foul. I don't think it is there for regular game events but for the you-have-got-to-be- $%$%-kidding-me scenarios.

I've seen it called exactly once, in a high school game I was watching and happened to have a perfect angle. Defender faked to draw a charge with a huge groan and flop. Unfortunately for the defender, the referee was a the right angle to see there was a full foot of space between the two players when he went down in agony . . .

I get that they mean faking contact to try to get call but that is part of my point. If precision of language is going to be of importance to application of the rules be precise.

In terms of calling a T. I think you can call someone if they've faked when there is no contact and they go down or grab at their eye etc. Clearly making stuff up.

I think if there is contact I can come up with almost no scenario in which I would T up what I considered embellishment. How kids respond to pain/contact/impact and their level of toughness/desire to get hit/ how they choose to absorb contact are all too individualized. I'm letting it go. Worst case scenario I ask them to stay on their feet or be less theatrical.


I've been in a gym where it was called once. Was a bad call. We had a player who was dropping back to floor at any bump in the chest. My partner had warned him for 'flopping' asked me to keep an eye on it and T if it got bad. 2nd half offensive player gets elbows up high on a pivot and kid goes down like he's been shot. Partner blows whistle and T's him for flopping. Kid stands up and spits blood and part of a tooth on his shoe and gets tossed.

[constable]

Originally Posted by kstiles99

I hear some group of people (cheerleaders?) screaming when the ball is released on the free throw.. by rule, that's a T but I'd stay away from it here.

still waiting.