What is the POI?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by bballref3966

This is what I would consider an unacceptable misapplication of the rules–at any level. This is not a difficult rule to understand and apply.

The AP arrow is used for double fouls if and only if the point of interruption cannot be determined.

Technically, that is not true. The point of interruption is the process for resuming the game following an interruption. How it gets resumed depends upon what was taking place when play was halted. So it is always possible to determine the POI.

It would be better if you thought of and spoke of POI from a rules standpoint instead of a layman's perspective. The POI is NOT the stoppage! It is the adminstrative process used to resume the game. Look at the definition in rule 4.

[Rob1968]

Thanks, for the input, guys. I was made aware of the situation a couple of nights after it occurred, in a HS league, in which some less experienced officials are receiving training and evaluations.
The really disappointing aspect is that some of the leaders and higher ranked officials supported the incorrect application, and then they refused to consider that in was incorrect.
I didn't have access to a Rule Book, and stated the logic and substance of the Rule, but without a citation, they became defensive. So, I promised that I'd present the issue to the Forum.

[bballref3966]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Technically, that is not true. The point of interruption is the process for resuming the game following an interruption. How it gets resumed depends upon what was taking place when play was halted. So it is always possible to determine the POI.

It would be better if you thought of and spoke of POI from a rules standpoint instead of a layman's perspective. The POI is NOT the stoppage! It is the arminstrative process used to resume the game. Look at the definition in rule 4.

Before you imply that I don't know the rules and call me a "layman," you ought to read 6-4-3-f.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bballref3966

Before you imply that I don't know the rules and call me a "layman," you ought to read 6-4-3-f.

Did you read the rule they referenced in 4-36-2c?

Just for clarification purposes, that rules reference says:

A jump ball or alternating-possession throw-in when neither team is in control and no goal, infraction nor end of the quarter/extra period is involved when the game is interrupted.

Rule 6-4-3 is about when you have an AP throw-in. If you have an inadvertent whistle, interrupted game, correctable error, double foul (personal, technical) or simultaneous foul you can have a AP throw-in if you cannot determine where the ball was located on like a shoot that is missed. You cannot put the ball where it was in the air after a shot just because.

Peace

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by bballref3966

Before you imply that I don't know the rules and call me a "layman," you ought to read 6-4-3-f.

I didn't imply anything. I directly stated that you are speaking of the POI process (NFHS rule 4-36) in layman's terms instead of the jargon of a basketball official. If you read the text of 4-36, you will see that one of the three methods of resuming play can always be used and that it is not possible to have the POI be unable to be determined.

Sadly, the line in rule 6 which you cite was the result of a fairly recent editorial rewrite of the section on AP throw-ins and that language was used by someone with a poor understanding of the NFHS rules.

I'll say this once again: The POI is NOT the stoppage. It is the method used to resume the game.

[bballref3966]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I didn't imply anything. I directly stated that you are speaking of the POI process (NFHS rule 4-36) in layman's terms instead of the jargon of a basketball official. If you read the text of 4-36, you will see that one of the three methods of resuming play can always be used and that it is not possible to have the POI be unable to be determined.

Sadly, the line in rule 6 which you cite was the result of a fairly recent editorial rewrite of the section on AP throw-ins and that language was used by someone with a poor understanding of the NFHS rules.

I'll say this once again: The POI is NOT the stoppage. It is the method used to resume the game.

I understand, but to say I was using layman's terms is false because I quoted a rule straight out of the book. It may be poorly written or inconsistent with the intricacies of the POI rule, but it is in the book and therefore would qualify as "jargon of a basketball official."

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I didn't imply anything. I directly stated that you are speaking of the POI process (NFHS rule 4-36) in layman's terms instead of the jargon of a basketball official. If you read the text of 4-36, you will see that one of the three methods of resuming play can always be used and that it is not possible to have the POI be unable to be determined.

Originally Posted by bballref3966

I understand, but to say I was using layman's terms is false because I quoted a rule straight out of the book. It may be poorly written or inconsistent with the intricacies of the POI rule, but it is in the book and therefore would qualify as "jargon of a basketball official."

You guys sound like an old married couple.

[Shooter14]

So what is the answer? Don't have book on me.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Shooter14

So what is the answer? Don't have book on me.

To the OP?

All double fouls go to POI. Shoot the FTs as normal.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bballref3966

I understand, but to say I was using layman's terms is false because I quoted a rule straight out of the book. It may be poorly written or inconsistent with the intricacies of the POI rule, but it is in the book and therefore would qualify as "jargon of a basketball official."

I disagree. Especially since the rule cited was not applicable and the rest of the post was layman.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bballref3966

Before you imply that I don't know the rules and call me a "layman," you ought to read 6-4-3-f.

He didn't imply that, and he didn't call you anything.

He was commenting on the perspective from which you were explaining this... and I agree with him. Simplifying into layman's terms is important when you're talking to a coach, or friends who don't officiate. But speaking that way often generalizes and causes misunderstandings... when discussing with officials (i.e. here), speak with rules terminology.