A "Balk" terminology question

[Robert E. Harrison]

With no runners it is an illegal pitch which is a ball.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by Robert E. Harrison

With no runners it is an illegal pitch which is a ball.

Balks are nothing in OBR/NCAA with no runners. The two defined Illegal Pitches are penalized with a ball with no runners.

[walkerbard]

Originally Posted by Robert E. Harrison

With no runners it is an illegal pitch which is a ball.

And an illegal pitch is called an illegal pitch, not a balk......unless there are runners on base....right?

It's my contention that the term "balk" can/is ONLY be applied when runners are on base.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by walkerbard

And an illegal pitch is called an illegal pitch, not a balk......unless there are runners on base....right?

It's my contention that the term "balk" can/is ONLY be applied when runners are on base.

The two Illegal Pitch violations are balks with runners on and balls without runners.

Your contention is correct but why would it be a point of contention. It seems pretty clear in the OBR rule book. Let's not talk about FED.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by walkerbard

And an illegal pitch is called an illegal pitch, not a balk......unless there are runners on base....right?

It's my contention that the term "balk" can/is ONLY be applied when runners are on base.

I agree with umpjim, you are quoting the OBR rule book. What is point that you are trying to make?

[BoomerSooner]

I think he's just looking for clarification on what it would look like in the real world when an illegal pitch is thrown (or as many fans might say, a balk occurs with nobody on base).

If that is accurate, then what should happen is: the play would be allowed to continue as the batter still has the opportunity to hit an illegal pitch and if the batter reaches first base the illegal pitch is ignored. Otherwise, the illegal pitch is called and a ball is added to the count regardless of the actual outcome of the play (i.e. the batter can ground out, take a strike, hit a foul ball, etc and that action is disregarded).

To further clarify your question, the umpire shouldn't be calling a balk in this case as "balk" is the term for wider range of infractions that occur with runners on base. Those infractions include committing an illegal pitch, as well as changing from the windup to the set position without disengaging the rubber, failing to come to a complete stop when coming set, making a "snap throw" to a base without stepping toward it, etc.

You don't see many illegal pitches at the MLB level and while technically a pause during the pitch violates the requirement to "pitch without interruption" once the natural motion associated with pitching has started, there typically isn't that much scrutiny of this type of situation as long as the pause is part of the pitcher's typical motion, is consistent from pitch to pitch and isn't overly obvious. An "ever so slight pause" probably isn't go to draw the ire of many umpires, coaches or players at that level with nobody on base.

[walkerbard]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

I agree with umpjim, you are quoting the OBR rule book. What is point that you are trying to make?

It was a discussion/argument on a sports board related to a video posted of this pitch by Johnny Cueto. (video is halfway down the page)

Johnny Cueto stops, whoas, wiggles with it before throwing pitch | MLB.com

One of the posters said this should have been called a "balk". I told him that first of all, you have to have runners on base to call a balk (he wouldn't have been in the wind up if runners were on base). He contended you didn't. That triggered a search of the MLB rule book which turned up the verbiage I described above. Just thought I'd run it past a few officials here for your point of view. As someone noted above, you don't see illegal pitches/actions that warrant an automatic ball to be called at the MLB level. I guess the illegal going to the mouth on the rubber is the most common and that doesn't happen often. But I've never heard of it referred to as a "balk" unless runner(s) are on base. Just a ball called. Thanks for all of your input.

[DG]

A balk can only occur with runner(s) on base in FED also.

[BSUmp16]

Ok - We all agree that with no runners an illegal pitch is a ball and not a balk. What's the mechanic? Do you point and say "That's an illegal pitch" like you would with a balk, or do you do something different? And on a side note - in FED is it also an immediate dead ball?

[DG]

Originally Posted by BSUmp16

Ok - We all agree that with no runners an illegal pitch is a ball and not a balk. What's the mechanic? Do you point and say "That's an illegal pitch" like you would with a balk, or do you do something different? And on a side note - in FED is it also an immediate dead ball?

Yes, "that's an illegal pitch", instead of "that's a balk". In OBR it is delayed dead, same as a balk, in FED it is dead ball, same as a balk.