Obstruction at first base

[todd.dicken]

I am very new at umpiring, I have about 20 games under my belt (Mainly 8U AA). Recently I had a very interesting game. A lot of coaches yelling at me for various reasons. Most were judgement calls safe/out. No big deal, I have found out quickly that someone is always going to be upset about your calls.

What really got me was a call I made at first. The batter hit a sharp ground ball to shortstop and as he threw to first, the first baseman had to move back standing on first base as the throw was a little high and towards home. He made the catch and tagged the runner. The coach proceeded to yell obstruction since the runner didn't have a clear path to step on that bag, and that the first baseman cannot stand on the bag. If I am correct, the first baseman has all the right to make the catch. Just wanted any clarification I can get in order to make calls as best I can. Thank you for any input you may have.

[jpgc99]

Originally Posted by todd.dicken

I am very new at umpiring, I have about 20 games under my belt (Mainly 8U AA). Recently I had a very interesting game. A lot of coaches yelling at me for various reasons. Most were judgement calls safe/out. No big deal, I have found out quickly that someone is always going to be upset about your calls.

What really got me was a call I made at first. The batter hit a sharp ground ball to shortstop and as he threw to first, the first baseman had to move back standing on first base as the throw was a little high and towards home. He made the catch and tagged the runner. The coach proceeded to yell obstruction since the runner didn't have a clear path to step on that bag, and that the first baseman cannot stand on the bag. If I am correct, the first baseman has all the right to make the catch. Just wanted any clarification I can get in order to make calls as best I can. Thank you for any input you may have.

Back when I umpired youth baseball, I found that coaches at that age were the absolute worst. If I could go back in time, I would have an extremely short leash. There is no reason to yell about an 8 year-old baseball game in any situation.

If the coach has a legitimate question about a ruling - as in the case of the potential obstruction at first base - he can request time and come have a civil conversation with you. Yelling about that - or any "close play" - gets a pretty simple treatment: Ignore the first time; warn the second; eject the third.

From your description, good ruling. The first baseman is allowed to make the catch.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by todd.dicken

I am very new at umpiring, I have about 20 games under my belt (Mainly 8U AA). Recently I had a very interesting game. A lot of coaches yelling at me for various reasons. Most were judgement calls safe/out. No big deal, I have found out quickly that someone is always going to be upset about your calls.

What really got me was a call I made at first. The batter hit a sharp ground ball to shortstop and as he threw to first, the first baseman had to move back standing on first base as the throw was a little high and towards home. He made the catch and tagged the runner. The coach proceeded to yell obstruction since the runner didn't have a clear path to step on that bag, and that the first baseman cannot stand on the bag. If I am correct, the first baseman has all the right to make the catch. Just wanted any clarification I can get in order to make calls as best I can. Thank you for any input you may have.

No one (until you reach NCAA or MLB) has any right to make a catch of a thrown ball. Fielder has the right of way to field a BATTED ball... Runner has the right of way pretty much all of the rest of the time, as long as he doesn't do something intentional.

Your OP sounds like OBS to me, if the runner had to slow or deviate from his path to avoid a fielder who did not have the ball.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by jpgc99

From your description, good ruling. The first baseman is allowed to make the catch.

Except that he doesn't.

[bob jenkins]

If the game was played under OBR, then the fielder can occupy the space to field the throw.

99.95% of these types of plays at first are "train wrecks" -- neither OBS nor INT.

[jpgc99]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

99.95% of these types of plays at first are "train wrecks" -- neither OBS nor INT.

Always listen to Bob. This is great advice.

[todd.dicken]

The game is played under OBR. In my observation of the play, the fielder was moving to catch the ball. Therefore I called the kid out, simple as that. Is their a more defined rule whether it has to be fielded from the bat vs caught from another player? I appreciate the advice Bob! Like I said, I'm new to this and I am only looking to further my knowledge of the rules.

Here is another one for you...Same game, so the coach is already fired up from the previous dispute. Im at position "A" and the batter hits a ROUTINE fly ball to center. I proceed to run into the infield and turn to watch the runner touch first. The next thing I hear is no catch from the other umpire. Apparently the kid in center momentarily had the ball in his glove, but never maintained possession. The coach then calls time and runs out yelling at me saying "You gotta make that call Blue!" and "that was your call to make!" I cant say the my training was sufficient, but I feel I made the correct decision by running in and leaving the catch/no catch up to my partner. I find that right now my biggest problem is deciding how to deal with coaches. I wanted really bad to tell him off, but feel I may have been too passive. Once again, thanks for any input.

[MD Longhorn]

Coaches that "run out and yell" at umpires should be shown the door. Quickly. That's inappropriate at any level, any ruleset.

I suggest you give the interference and obstruction rules a nice, long, once or twice over again. Of all the calls you'll have to make, other than simple out/safe or ball/strike or fair/foul calls - OBS and INT come up the most. And then re-read your mechanics. That will answer your other question.

Also --- when posting here, include your ruleset. It matters.

[BoomerSooner]

I'm not going to give the answer to your second question (feels like it would be undermining MD's suggestion to study up on mechanics, which after all is the best way to learn), but I will say the one thing that often gets overlooked is the importance of communication. When I first started I appreciated having my plate umpire guide me when there was a play that might be 50/50 on whether I should go out or come into the infield. It starts as a learning thing and develops into something that helps both of us know who has the call. It prevents us from both watching a ball hit to the outfield, as well as the much worse alternative; neither of us is watching the ball. Once you've worked with one partner long enough communication becomes more subtle and you rely on instinct more because both of you trust the other's instinct.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by todd.dicken

The game is played under OBR. In my observation of the play, the fielder was moving to catch the ball. Therefore I called the kid out, simple as that. Is their a more defined rule whether it has to be fielded from the bat vs caught from another player? I appreciate the advice Bob! Like I said, I'm new to this and I am only looking to further my knowledge of the rules.

Here is another one for you...Same game, so the coach is already fired up from the previous dispute. Im at position "A" and the batter hits a ROUTINE fly ball to center. I proceed to run into the infield and turn to watch the runner touch first. The next thing I hear is no catch from the other umpire. Apparently the kid in center momentarily had the ball in his glove, but never maintained possession. The coach then calls time and runs out yelling at me saying "You gotta make that call Blue!" and "that was your call to make!" I cant say the my training was sufficient, but I feel I made the correct decision by running in and leaving the catch/no catch up to my partner. I find that right now my biggest problem is deciding how to deal with coaches. I wanted really bad to tell him off, but feel I may have been too passive. Once again, thanks for any input.

Here's a rule of thumb that I used to use

• Players get and answer to their question but are not allowed to dispute calls
• Assistant managers get no leeway at all. They are there to tell the players what to do, not interface with the umpires.
• Managers get to talk, discuss (not yell) and argue to a point. They are the only ones who speak for the team and it is up to you and your partner to know who the manager is.

A manager who comes out yelling gets no response at all from me. When he takes a breath, I'll thank him for his observation and move into my position on the outfield grass behind 2nd base or behind the plate if that is not where I have to be). If he follows me, he's gone. It's that simple.

Don't let allow coaches to yell at you or tell you your job. Do not get into a pi$$ing contest with them and resist the temptation to argue back. All you need to do is stay calm and let the coach either talk himself out or say good by to him. Also, once a coach says the word "you", the next words better be "are great", "are a star" or something like that because if the next words are derogatory, he has made the argument personal and needs to be ejected immediately.

[Altor]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Do not get into a pi$$ing contest with them and resist the temptation to argue back. All you need to do is stay calm and let the coach either talk himself out or say good by to him.

A smarter man than me once said, "You can't misquote silence."

[DG]

Originally Posted by todd.dicken

The game is played under OBR. In my observation of the play, the fielder was moving to catch the ball. Therefore I called the kid out, simple as that. Is their a more defined rule whether it has to be fielded from the bat vs caught from another player? I appreciate the advice Bob! Like I said, I'm new to this and I am only looking to further my knowledge of the rules.

Here is another one for you...Same game, so the coach is already fired up from the previous dispute. Im at position "A" and the batter hits a ROUTINE fly ball to center. I proceed to run into the infield and turn to watch the runner touch first. The next thing I hear is no catch from the other umpire. Apparently the kid in center momentarily had the ball in his glove, but never maintained possession. The coach then calls time and runs out yelling at me saying "You gotta make that call Blue!" and "that was your call to make!" I cant say the my training was sufficient, but I feel I made the correct decision by running in and leaving the catch/no catch up to my partner. I find that right now my biggest problem is deciding how to deal with coaches. I wanted really bad to tell him off, but feel I may have been too passive. Once again, thanks for any input.

You made the correct decision. Umpire in A never has the CF catch on routine fly ball. Your job is to make sure batter touches 1b. Coaches can ask for time, umpire has to grant it. If he runs out on the field truly yelling at me, I let him get right up to me and then toss him without any explanation. The word will get around amongst the parents and other coaches that you don't run out on the field yelling at umpires.

I don't think I have ever seen obstruction called on 1st baseman trying to catch a throw at 1b. And if he catches it and tags the runner before he reaches 1b, I get an out every time. I have seen a number of train wrecks at 1b.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by DG

I don't think I have ever seen obstruction called on 1st baseman trying to catch a throw at 1b. And if he catches it and tags the runner before he reaches 1b, I get an out every time. I have seen a number of train wrecks at 1b.

I concur (never had to rule on the FED caseplay sit) but I have a nagging question about a play I just saw. Bunted ball down 3B line. F3 set up behind 1B and we get the out. Offense says he slowed down my runner who peeled off in stride to avoid trucking the F3. I have nothing but it might be a intentional position to affect the runner. Do we require a train wreck here? That's what that offensive coach is going to tell his runner next time.

[CT1]

Originally Posted by umpjim

I concur (never had to rule on the FED caseplay sit) but I have a nagging question about a play I just saw. Bunted ball down 3B line. F3 set up behind 1B and we get the out. Offense says he slowed down my runner who peeled off in stride to avoid trucking the F3. I have nothing but it might be a intentional position to affect the runner. Do we require a train wreck here? That's what that offensive coach is going to tell his runner next time.

Did F3 cheat to gain an advantage? If so, you probably have OBS, even without contact.

But it would have to be very obvious.

[MD Longhorn]

Rule is pretty clear. Interpretation, obviously, is all over the freaking map.

Rule (except NCAA) says that if a defensive player is not fielding a batted ball (BATTED, not thrown), and is in the runners path without the ball, and the runner or batter-runner deviates (slows or changes) his path to avoid that fielder, it's obstruction.

YMMV.