Obstruction base awarding (I think)

[Whowefoolin]

Runner goes to second trying to hoof out a single. Bad, lazy throw to second, but second baseman is camped infront of second base.

Runner slides into second and gets hung up on the second baseman and doesn't make it to second. Throw comes in and tag applied.

I have obstruction because of the "camping" by the second baseman. My question, is the runner only awarded second (which would be an award of 12") or does he get third too?

Please explain if he gets third. I was told he does.

[bluezebra]

What level of ball is it? LL, FED, OBR, etc.

Bob

[greymule]

I'd give him 2B only, regardless of the level. He was trying to make 2B, and he was obstructed going there. On what basis would he get 3B? There's no penalty of an extra base for obstruction.

If he's between 1B and 2B and is obstructed going back into 1B, that's another story. Now whether he gets 1B or 2B depends on various factors. What level was it? Was there a direct play on him? Was he legitimately attempting to get to 2B? Was it type A or type B obstruction? Not always easy.

[PeteBooth]

Originally posted by Whowefoolin

Runner goes to second trying to hoof out a single. Bad, lazy throw to second, but second baseman is camped infront of second base.

Runner slides into second and gets hung up on the second baseman and doesn't make it to second. Throw comes in and tag applied.

I have obstruction because of the "camping" by the second baseman. My question, is the runner only awarded second (which would be an award of 12") or does he get third too?

Please explain if he gets third. I was told he does.

Most of the time, an obstructed runner will get a 1 base award. We need what is called "post obstruction" evidence to award add'l bases.

Let's take your original example, except this time the ball is bobbled in the outfield or thrown into DBT. Originally, our protection is to second base, however, the defense committed error number 2 on this play - they didn't handle the ball cleanly or they threw it away.

To further illustrate here's a play from Carl Childress's BRD page 174 play 140-331

B1 hits safely just over the head of F6. The batter, noting that F7 is lazily coming to the ball, decides to try for two. Hurriedly F7 gets the ball and in his haste fires one over everyone's head. The ball eventually winds up in DBT. Before the throw is airborne, F3 who was trailing the play, trips B1 from behind, and the BR limps safely but angrily into second.

RULING: Penalize for both the obstruction and the overthrow. Without the obstruction B1 would have been at second. The umpire will measure the award from the base B1 would have made but for the obstruction he goes home.

Based soley on the info you provided, IMO, there was no further evidence to award B1 third base. The ball was not bobbled or thrown away, so the award is second base.

Pete Booth

[bluezebra]

Originally posted by greymule
I'd give him 2B only, regardless of the level. He was trying to make 2B, and he was obstructed going there. On what basis would he get 3B? There's no penalty of an extra base for obstruction.

If he's between 1B and 2B and is obstructed going back into 1B, that's another story. Now whether he gets 1B or 2B depends on various factors. What level was it? Was there a direct play on him? Was he legitimately attempting to get to 2B? Was it type A or type B obstruction? Not always easy.

In FED, the obstructed runner gets (at least) one base past the last base occupied.

Bob

[Rog]

the shorter version:

"PBUC/NAPBL

4.21 OBSTRUCTION

Obstruction is the act of a fielder who, while not in possession of the ball and not in the act of fielding the ball, impedes the progress of any runner.
If a fielder is about to receive a thrown ball and if the ball is in flight directly toward and near enough to the fielder so he must occupy his position to receive the ball, he may be considered "in the act of fielding a ball." It is entirely up to the judgment of the umpire as to whether a fielder is in the act of fielding a ball.
After a fielder has made an attempt to field a ball and has missed, he can no longer be in the "act of fielding" the ball. For example: if an infielder dives at a ground ball and the ball passes him and he continues to lie on the ground and delays the progress of the runnei; he very likely has obstructed the runner.
In all cases of obstruction, the umpire calling the play should have the benefit of the advice of his partners. The umpire watching the obstruction will have difficulty in determining the position of other runners. It is rec-ommended that when "Time" is called on obstruction, if there is any doubt in the minds of the umpires about where the runner or runners shall be placed, the umpires shall confer."

Bob:
In FED, the obstructed runner gets (at least) one base past the last base occupied.
That is true and the last legal base was first so he gets second.

[greymule]

Bluezebra is correct: Fed always advances the runner a base, not differentiating between types of obstruction. But in certain situations (e.g., runner rounds 1B, contacts F3, no real attempt to advance evident, no play on the runner), umps routinely disregard the book and keep him at 1B.

Of course, in the play that started this thread, the award would still be just 2B.

[Bfair]

Originally posted by greymule
Bluezebra is correct: Fed always advances the runner a base, not differentiating between types of obstruction. But in certain situations (e.g., runner rounds 1B, contacts F3, no real attempt to advance evident, no play on the runner), umps routinely disregard the book and keep him at 1B.

Of course, in the play that started this thread, the award would still be just 2B.

Greymule, I agree they disregard the book on such obstructions that do not impact play. However, it should be noted that they disregard it by not calling obstruction unless it impacts play.

It is not disregarded regarding the award. When obstruction is called, the proper award per Fed rule is made. It's easier to overlook the judgment of the infraction than the objective limits of the penalty.


Just my opinion,

Freix