Obstruction -- always a base award ??

18597 · #1 (**permalink**) Wed May 08, 2002, 09:03am

Co-ed SlowPitch, R1,R2. Batter hits the ball to the left side of infield, both F5 and F6 move to field the ball. R2 swerves to avoid contact with with the fielders, but is not completely successful, lightly brushing against F5. F6 fields the ball and steps on third base.

The remedy for obstruction is to award the runner the base they would have reached had the obstruction not occurred, but what if, in the opinion of the umpire, R2 would not have reached 3rd safely if the obstruction had not occurred. Is R2 still awarded 3 base?

Gulf Coast Blue · #2 (**permalink**) Wed May 08, 2002, 09:27am

Speaking ASA.......

See ASA 8-6-B-1

An obstructed runner may NOT be put out between the two bases where obstructed.......

See also POE #34

Joel

greymule · #3 (**permalink**) Wed May 08, 2002, 10:11am

Gulf Coast Blue is correct, but if the play wasn't close at 3B, very few umps will call the obstruction. And they're not likely to get an argument, either, unless the offensive team is sharp. Most people would think the runner interfered with the fielder (F5).

Dakota · #4 (**permalink**) Wed May 08, 2002, 11:28am

Quote:

Originally posted by 18597
what if, in the opinion of the umpire, R2 would not have reached 3rd safely if the obstruction had not occurred. Is R2 still awarded 3 base?

Joel & greymule, both correct statements, but you didn't answer 18597's question (BTW, 18597, I didn't know they played coed ball in the Big House

Or, maybe I have you all wrong - are you related to 7 of 9?

Welcome to the board! ).

The answer is, no. R2 would be returned to 2B.

Gulf Coast Blue · #5 (**permalink**) Wed May 08, 2002, 11:38am

But Dakota......we have runner on 1st and a runner on 2nd and now a BR......we cannot return R2 to 2nd.......R1 is there........

I agree that sometimes runners that are obstructed are returned to their previous base........but not in this case.

Joel

greymule · #6 (**permalink**) Wed May 08, 2002, 11:45am

I think I disagree there, Dakota. If the runner is making a true attempt to get to 3B and is obstructed, then he gets 3B, whether he would have made it or not. If he is merely rounding 2B to get a look and trips over F6 a few steps past the bag, then he goes back to 2B. Plus, in this case he was forced to 3B.

I posed a similar question a couple of months ago in baseball, where with 2 out and runners on 1B and 2B, the batter hits a hard one-hopper to F5. The runner from 2B, miles from 3B, trips over F6 just before F5 steps on 3B for the force. The general agreement was that F6 did commit obstruction, though some conceded that most umps would figure it didn't bear on the play and would ignore it.

Dakota · #7 (**permalink**) Wed May 08, 2002, 11:53am

- missed the force situation - sorry.

However, if the force were not there, if a runner is obstructed on a dead-duck attempt to advance, I'm returning the runner to the previous base if tagged out between the bases where the obstruction occurred.

Taking the sure out away from the defense is penalty enough for the obstruction; we shouldn't further reward the offense for a dumb-runner move.

Dakota · #8 (**permalink**) Wed May 08, 2002, 11:56am

Quote:

Originally posted by greymule
I posed a similar question a couple of months ago in baseball, where with 2 out and runners on 1B and 2B, the batter hits a hard one-hopper to F5. The runner from 2B, miles from 3B, trips over F6 just before F5 steps on 3B for the force. The general agreement was that F6 did commit obstruction, though some conceded that most umps would figure it didn't bear on the play and would ignore it.

I've never called baseball, but doesn't baseball have a tradition of ignoring "no advantage" infractions? Isn't that different from softball?

However, as I said before, your earlier statement that most umpires would ignore the obstruction in the situation described is a true statement. Technically incorrect, but true nonetheless.

greymule · #9 (**permalink**) Wed May 08, 2002, 12:14pm

Yes, I think that tradition does exist, and that's why I posed the question. Everyone seemed to agree that there was an infraction, that technically the runner was entitled to 3B. Some said to call it, some said no call but warn the fielder, some said ignore it and nobody will give you much heat, some said they'd have to see it.

If we make an analogy to football, if a back has run 50 yards downfield and is about to score, do we call holding that occurs back at the line of scrimmage? How about a clip 30 yards back? How serious does the personal foul have to be before we negate the touchdown?

(For all I know, football rules already cover these situtations!)

I think we all know that if you called everything exactly by the book, you'd have two teams and a lot of fans all over you. In general, you call what everybody expects you to call.

IRISHMAFIA · #10 (**permalink**) Wed May 08, 2002, 09:53pm

You ALWAYS call obstruction when you see it. You do not wait for the result of the play to determine whether or not it affected the play. Remember, the affects of an obstruction are not disciplinary, but an equalizer to negate the obstruction.

Actually, an umpire is not empowered to ignore the call at the time of it's occurance.

bluezebra · #11 (**permalink**) Wed May 08, 2002, 10:07pm

"If we make an analogy to football, if a back has run 50 yards downfield and is about to score, do we call holding that occurs back at the line of scrimmage? How about a clip 30 yards back? How serious does the personal foul have to be before we negate the touchdown?"

Call holding (not a personal foul) behind the ball if it has no bearing on the play? NO

Clipping, anywhere. YES. It's a personal foul, dangerous, and may cause serious injury.

Bob