Warning pitchers

[Jay R]

This is my first year umpiring. Pee Wee (12-13 yrs old)tournament. Team A pitcher has a strong outing for 5 innings. In the 6th, he starts to lose control and velocity a bit. Team B clean up hitter hits a massive three run homer. Next batter, first pitch is over his head. This pitcher had been around the plate all game. I immediately warn him and his manager. I did not however warn Team B pitcher or manager as I often see Major League umpires do. We finished the game with no other incidents.

Here is my question for some feedback. Would you warn both teams? I just felt that there had been no ill will between the two teams up to this point and that warning Team B seemed heavy handed considering the only thing they did wrong was to hit the ball too hard. Does anyone feel that a warning is not justified? Considering it was the first pitch of the game that was anywhere near a bean ball.

Jay

[GarthB]

I am astonished that you have 12 year olds coached to throw at batters after a home run. Are you really sure this was intentional?

I don't work 12 year olds, but I assign that level and watch the games. I don't think I'd have issued a warning.

However, if one of my umpires issued a warning, I'd expect him to do it by the book.

[brian43]

seems pretty unnecessary to me. after a 12 year old gives up a bomb hes going to be a bit frazzeled and if he didnt throw the ball over the next batters head i would be surprised. they are 12, i doubt it would be intentional to hit the kid after a homerun. i would have let it go especially that late in the game too.

[wpiced]

However, if one of my umpires issued a warning, I'd expect him to do it by the book.

Garth, I issue warnings now and again. What do you mean by the book?

[wpiced]

Here is a true story about a warning to the pitcher and catcher after a home run.

I was UIC at a military base officiating a Sr. American Legeon game; two man crew. Top of the third, two men on, and two outs, number 12 comes to the plate. He is a huge, beefy, teddy bear, about 6'4" 260 LBS. Before the game, at our plate conference, one of the coaches commented that there was a whole under the left field fence that is a ground rule double, but there hasn't been a H.R. in left field for three years due to the prevailing winds that blow in from that direction.

Nunber 12 didn't seem to heed the prevailing wind idea, because with the first pitch, I heard the teddy bear
grunt real hard, then the ping of the bat and that ball was gone before I could get half way down the third- base line. Two innings later, number 12 thundered to the plate. The fans were hushed and I could see some anticipation on the faces of the infield. I actually put up my left hand to hold off the pitch, an said to the catcher, "Don't you dare call a throw at the the batter!" Catch looked up at me questioningly, and said, "What do you mean?" "Your heard me catch!" I pointed the ball live, and I'll be damned if the first pitch didn't come in on the lead shoulder of number 12. I exploded. I yeld at the catcher, and the pitcher, I went out to my partner and ask him if the pitch looked like an intentional throw at the batter. "Gee Marty, I honestly believe it was an accident!" By then the coach came running out to calm things down. I told the coach, pitcher and catcher that there were four innings left to play, and if that ball comes near a batters head, all three were leanivg the park. I should never have been this enraged, but I was.

After the game, I was drinking some bottled water at the concession stand when a gentleman came up to me and said, "Blue, I appreciate your concern for the safety of the players, but I want you to know that number 12 is my son and the pitcher is our neighbor. They're like bothers and do everything together. That pitch was truly an accident."

I felt badly for my behavier, but would I do it again? YES!!

[Edited by wpiced on Aug 31st, 2003 at 08:47 PM]

[GarthB]

Originally posted by wpiced

Garth, I issue warnings now and again. What do you mean by the book?

OBR 8.02 The pitcher shall not-

(d)Intentionally Pitch at the Batter.

If, in the umpire’s judgment, such a violation occurs, the umpire may elect either to:

1.Expel the pitcher, or the manager and the pitcher, from the game or

2.May warn the pitcher and the manager of both teams that another such pitch will result in the immediate expulsion of that pitcher(or a replacement) and the manager.

If, in the umpire’s judgment, circumstances warrant, both teams may be officially “warned” prior to the game or at any time during the game. (League Presidents may take additional action under authority provided in Rule 9.05)

[blarson]

Originally posted by GarthB
I am astonished that you have 12 year olds coached to throw at batters after a home run. Are you really sure this was intentional?

Had a game in our districts. One homer, coach called time. Talks to F1. Next pitch at the head. That batter eventually homers. Another conference, next pitch at the head. Next pitch out of the park. Now U3 goes down the line near the conference. Coach get's pissed. "Are you listening to my conference?"

PU never issued a warning because he couldn't believe that he'd see this in 12U game.

Bob

[wpiced]

Garth,

I have no issues with the rules you cited in your reply. But, the one rule you left out was 9.01(d).

"COACH! OFF THE FIELD AND TAKE YOUR BATTERY WITH YOU!" "YES, UNSPORTSMAN LIKE CONDUCT IS THE WAY I WILL REPORT IT!"

THEN, I would keep the ball, warn the opposing skipper and his bench, make damn sure that the three ejected team members were out of the park, or at least behind the stands.

I would tell the new mgr. that his team is about to forfit the game, so stay on top of his players. This whole scene seldom happens unless the mgr. and coaches practice it, foster it, or at least turn their heads in tacit approval.

Finally, I would write down all the details needed for a full report that would be faxed to my assigner soon after the game. In our association, our assigner prefers to make the direct contact with the various league presedents. They are his clients and he wouldn't want some irate umpire coming down on a league pres. or saying something that might roughen relationships that might affect next years service.

I am not a hard-*** umpire, and I believe in the spirit of a rule as much as I do the letter of the law. But, don't pitch at a batter's head!

Oh yes, I would give the ball back to the new pitcher.

[GarthB]

I look at 9.02 (d) similarly as I do 9.01 (c) in that if there are specific rules that cover the issue, it is best to use them and not rules in the 9.01 area.

Throwing at a batter is covered by rule. 9.01 (d) is best utilized for unsportsmanlike behavior that is not separately covered by rule.

A comparison would be: Tom assaulted Bill in front of several witnesses and clearly committed battery on his person. The police arrived and charged Tom with unruly conduct instead of assault and battery.

As a former officer, I can tell you that when there is a behavior specific ordinance, statute or law, it will be used for the arrest charges. The "catch all" laws are dragged out for when the behavior is not issue specific or for when the idiots in the DA's office want to negotiate a plea.

[Roger Greene]

Originally posted by GarthB
[the idiots in the DA's office [/B]

Garth,
I didn't know you were in our Judicial District????

Roger Greene

[GarthB]

Originally posted by Roger Greene

Garth,
I didn't know you were in our Judicial District????

Roger Greene [/B]

Some things are universal, your Honor.

There were several issues that caused me to rethink my decision to serve on the force. Being part of the prosecution "team" and being prepped for testimony and witnessing the "behind closed door" stratgey and negotiating certainly played a role.

But before I sound too altruistic, getting shot at played a bigger role.

[Edited by GarthB on Sep 2nd, 2003 at 12:11 PM]

[Roger Greene]

Originally posted by GarthB
[B
Some things are universal, your Honor.

There were several issues that caused me to rethink my decision to serve on the force. Being part of the prosecution "team" and being prepped for testimony and witnessing the "behind closed door" stratgey and negotiating certainly played a role.

But before I sound too altruistic, getting shot at played a bigger role.

[Edited by GarthB on Sep 2nd, 2003 at 12:11 PM] [/B]

Been there and done that. But you gotta admit, being shot at is a rush as soon as your sure you didn't get hit!

After 27 years on the criminal side (Deputy Sheriff/investigator, DA's staff,& assignment to the criminal office as a magistrate) I'm now working nearly all civil cases and administrative matters. It is almost like a different job. Kinda like being the protest committee and assigner instead of the umpire.

Roger Greene

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Roger, did I follow your logic that being an umpire is like getting shot at? I think that is what you said, even if unintentional.

And all to often we are unprepared and get hit.

It is a sobering analogy but probably all to true.

I'm getting more prepared with each posting I read.