Award of "home run"

[BretMan]

What if...

A fielder is standing at the fence, waiting to make a routine catch. For some reason, he botches it. The ball pops from his glove and goes over.

Would that not be scored as an error?

Is a home run not a hit, statistically speaking?

So if it's an error, it's not a hit, and if it's not a hit then how can it be a home run, since a home run is a hit?

[UMP45]

Originally Posted by BretMan

What if...

A fielder is standing at the fence, waiting to make a routine catch. For some reason, he botches it. The ball pops from his glove and goes over.

Would that not be scored as an error?

Is a home run not a hit, statistically speaking?

So if it's an error, it's not a hit, and if it's not a hit then how can it be a home run, since a home run is a hit?

It depends. Is the moon full or new?

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by BretMan

What if...

A fielder is standing at the fence, waiting to make a routine catch. For some reason, he botches it. The ball pops from his glove and goes over.

Would that not be scored as an error?

Is a home run not a hit, statistically speaking?

So if it's an error, it's not a hit, and if it's not a hit then how can it be a home run, since a home run is a hit?

Reading comprehension folks. I just posted the scoring rule. 10.06(e ). I went back and highlighted a key word. A fair ball went out of the playing field in flight. Criteria met. It's a HR. It's a hit. Ask Canseco.

[BretMan]

My reading comprehension is just fine, thank you.

10.06 DETERMINING VALUE OF BASE HITS

The official scorer shall score a base hit as a one-base hit, two-base hit, three-base hit or home run when no error or putout results, as follows...

10.12 ERRORS...

(a) The official scorer shall charge an error against any fielder:

(1) whose misplay (fumble, muff or wild throw) prolongs the time at bat of a batter, prolongs the presence on the bases of a runner or permits a runner to advance one or more bases...

Says right there that you can't be credited with a home run if it was the result of an error.

Maybe Canseco wasn't charged with an error becasue the official scorer didn't judge a on the run, back to the infield, over the head, at the fence, catch attempt to be "ordinary effort".

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by BretMan

My reading comprehension is just fine, thank you.

10.06 DETERMINING VALUE OF BASE HITS

The official scorer shall score a base hit as a one-base hit, two-base hit, three-base hit or home run when no error or putout results, as follows...

10.12 ERRORS...

(a) The official scorer shall charge an error against any fielder:

(1) whose misplay (fumble, muff or wild throw) prolongs the time at bat of a batter, prolongs the presence on the bases of a runner or permits a runner to advance one or more bases...

Says right there that you can't be credited with a home run if it was the result of an error.

Maybe Canseco wasn't charged with an error becasue the official scorer didn't judge a on the run, back to the infield, over the head, at the fence, catch attempt to be "ordinary effort".

The rule I quoted overrides this. "The scorer SHALL . .credit a HR if a ball goes over the fence in flight."

Not "may"award a HR. Not "can" award a HR. "Shall" award a HR.

Comprende?

[BretMan]

"Conflicts with" maybe. But how do you figure "overrides"?

Both of the rules I posted say "SHALL" (credit a hit or charge an error). If inclusion of the magic word "shall" is the determining factor, what do you do if they all say "shall"?

I'll see your "shall" and raise you another "shall". Two shalls are greater than one!

I know what I would do. Or, wouldn't do, which is give a sh... I'm an umpire and how the official scorer rules it has no bearing on the playing rules I deal with.

[Rich Ives]

Because the scorer gets to decide if it's a hit or error - except where it says he shall credit a hit. There are automatic hits but no automatic errors.

[bwburke94]

And the Canseco play is automatically a hit. Nothing to discuss here.