Inadvertent "You're Out!"

[Spence]

2 outs. 2 strikes. Checked swing appeal on a ball that bounces. Partner signals that he went. You yell "batter out." Defense heads to the dugout.

Batter runs to first with no throw.

Safe?

NFHS

[Robert E. Harrison]

Why did you yell "You"re Out!"
Did the batter do what he was supposed to do?
Did the catcher do what he was supposed to do?

[john5396]

I think you have a 10.2.L situation. After consultation with partner or just within your own head, you have to revese the decision of calling the batter out to properly apply the rule.

10.2.L requires you to rectify the situation which put either team at a disadvantage. Both teams sould have known the rule, the offence did and followed correctly ran the bases. I think I would overule the out and leave the runner at first.

[Spence]

Originally Posted by Robert E. Harrison

Why did you yell "You"re Out!"
Did the batter do what he was supposed to do?
Did the catcher do what he was supposed to do?

It wasnt me. Just used me in the example.

[Robert E. Harrison]

I would call the runner safe allow the him to stay on first. Then I would make a mental note that I plate umpire needs additional training and explain to the defense that the batter-runner would have been out if they did what they were supposed to do in that scenario.

[MD Longhorn]

Perfect reason why PU should never say this. "STRIKE!" or "Strike Three!" is plenty.

As to fixing it, no matter what you do, you've put one team or the other at a disadvantage. If you put the runner on first, you disadvantaged the defense by calling the out (coach can legitimately assume that PU calling BR out was his indication that the ball did not hit the ground, and was caught for the out). If you don't put the runner on first, you've disadvantaged the offense by calling a player out before they were out.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Perfect reason why PU should never say this. "STRIKE!" or "Strike Three!" is plenty.

As to fixing it, no matter what you do, you've put one team or the other at a disadvantage. If you put the runner on first, you disadvantaged the defense by calling the out (coach can legitimately assume that PU calling BR out was his indication that the ball did not hit the ground, and was caught for the out). If you don't put the runner on first, you've disadvantaged the offense by calling a player out before they were out.

And so, and John5396 indicated, you need to decide which was the most likely and rule that. And if it's close, take some guff from the other team.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

If you put the runner on first, you disadvantaged the defense by calling the out (coach can legitimately assume that PU calling BR out was his indication that the ball did not hit the ground, and was caught for the out).

Every high school catcher worth his salt would tag the batter first before requesting the checked swing appeal, even if he caught the ball near the ground. He put himself at a disadvantage.

[EsqUmp]

You need to be realistic though. If the catcher has the ball when the umpire says "You're out" and then tosses it back and the batter-runner runs, let's not forget the disadvantage out put the defensive in. Sure, they could still throw the ball, but YOU said it wasn't required. So now you're going to guess that a batter-runner would be safe when the defense has the ball in the infield. Hmm

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

You need to be realistic though. If the catcher has the ball when the umpire says "You're out" and then tosses it back and the batter-runner runs, let's not forget the disadvantage out put the defensive in. Sure, they could still throw the ball, but YOU said it wasn't required. So now you're going to guess that a batter-runner would be safe when the defense has the ball in the infield. Hmm

I agree. PU called her out. Defense has no reason to continue playing. As to "fixing" - had PU properly made no out call, and BU ran, it's FAR more likely that F2 throws to 1st for the easy out. No way do I put this runner on base.

[David B]

Originally Posted by Spence

2 outs. 2 strikes. Checked swing appeal on a ball that bounces. Partner signals that he went. You yell "batter out." Defense heads to the dugout.

Batter runs to first with no throw.

Safe?

NFHS

That's good baserunning - most players would have headed to the dugout.
As others have suggested, I would leave him on first and explain the mistake.

When this would be a big problem would be with other runners on base.

thanks
David

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by Spence

2 outs. 2 strikes. Checked swing appeal on a ball that bounces. Partner signals that he went. You yell "batter out." Defense heads to the dugout.

Batter runs to first with no throw.

Safe?

NFHS

I will use the softball casebook on this, since the D3K rule is similar. If the umpire feels the batter runner would have reached first base, he/she should award the BR first base.

In this situation, even though the umpire stated your out, the B-R knew well enough to head to first base. The defense should have known well enough to throw down on a D3K. I would be awarding the B-R first base on the play.



One thing to consider is the timing of everything. The checked swing, dropped pitch, and appeal to the BU would all have to occur very quickly followed by an almost immediate out call by the PU. If the defense is paying attention, as soon as the BU signals the swing, the catcher should be up ready to throw to first on a D3K.

It really depends on the entire situation, which is a HTBT thing. You really have to see all the timing to say in an absolute manner if you would put the batter-runner on first.

[Out]

Out says Safe!