Deception play

[Sgt Siler]

Little League majors. When I played (100 years ago), when a batter walked, the catcher always threw to F3, the old "hidden ball trick". Is there any rules governing deception now?

Last week I am on bases. Catcher receives pitch, hops up, fakes throw to
3rd, base, pretending to attempt back-pick of R3. F5 leaps in air and then turns around and looks towards the outfield. F6 starts running to the outfield. F7 bends over, looks between his legs, turns and then begins running towards the foul pole. 3rd base coach sees catcher still has the ball and keeps runner on base.

It was very well executed, worthy of an academy award. It faked out both me and PU. Between inning we questioned if there is a rule prohibiting this.

Thanks in advance for your input.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Sgt Siler

Little League majors. When I played (100 years ago), when a batter walked, the catcher always threw to F3, the old "hidden ball trick". Is there any rules governing deception now?

Last week I am on bases. Catcher receives pitch, hops up, fakes throw to
3rd, base, pretending to attempt back-pick of R3. F5 leaps in air and then turns around and looks towards the outfield. F6 starts running to the outfield. F7 bends over, looks between his legs, turns and then begins running towards the foul pole. 3rd base coach sees catcher still has the ball and keeps runner on base.

It was very well executed, worthy of an academy award. It faked out both me and PU. Between inning we questioned if there is a rule prohibiting this.

Thanks in advance for your input.

Not illegal at all. Deception is not illegal. Specific things are illegal (like F1 straddling the rubber without the ball - which nullifies the old hidden ball trick you mentioned, at least to a certain extent) - but nothing in the scenario you give is illegal.

[Out]

If deception is the exception rather then the rule...otherwise watch out for game delaying tactics!

[bob jenkins]

Just a variation on the Miami play -- perfectly legal.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Sgt Siler

Little League majors. When I played (100 years ago), when a batter walked, the catcher always threw to F3, the old "hidden ball trick". Is there any rules governing deception now?

Last week I am on bases. Catcher receives pitch, hops up, fakes throw to
3rd, base, pretending to attempt back-pick of R3. F5 leaps in air and then turns around and looks towards the outfield. F6 starts running to the outfield. F7 bends over, looks between his legs, turns and then begins running towards the foul pole. 3rd base coach sees catcher still has the ball and keeps runner on base.

It was very well executed, worthy of an academy award. It faked out both me and PU. Between inning we questioned if there is a rule prohibiting this.

Thanks in advance for your input.

Wow, a coach who actually didn't fall for it. What a novelty.

My son's high school team used to pull off the Miami play two or three times each year. You would think the coaches would know it was coming, and yet they still screwed up and had runners easily put out.

There are some forms of deception that are not allowed under certain rule sets. The one that comes to mind is when a runner from first attempts to steal second, the catcher throws the ball up in the air, and the infielders act as if the ball was popped up to fool the runner into returning to first and possibly get thrown out in the process. I believe this is considered obstruction in FED baseball.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Manny A

The one that comes to mind is when a runner from first attempts to steal second, the catcher throws the ball up in the air, and the infielders act as if the ball was popped up to fool the runner into returning to first and possibly get thrown out in the process. I believe this is considered obstruction in FED baseball.

Nope.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Matt

Nope.

Hmmm, then perhaps I'm reading case play 2.22.1A incorrectly.

Oh, I forgot that in the case play, one of the defensive players yells, "Get back, get back!" Better?

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Hmmm, then perhaps I'm reading case play 2.22.1A incorrectly.

Oh, I forgot that in the case play, one of the defensive players yells, "Get back, get back!" Better?

It's the yelling of "get back" that is the violation I think.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

It's the yelling of "get back" that is the violation I think.

Yep. Mimicking offensive personnel or speaking directly to the runner is where verbal obstruction happens.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Matt

Yep. Mimicking offensive personnel or speaking directly to the runner is where verbal obstruction happens.

Well, I find it too nitpicky that yelling, "Get back, get back," is cause for a violation, but yelling, "I got it, I got it!" is perfectly acceptable. There is no play to be made on the thrown ball, so the comment is purely meant to send the runner back.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Well, I find it too nitpicky that yelling, "Get back, get back," is cause for a violation, but yelling, "I got it, I got it!" is perfectly acceptable. There is no play to be made on the thrown ball, so the comment is purely meant to send the runner back.

Quite the opposite. It provides a clear delineation as to when to call it or not. Otherwise, you get into inconsistent enforcement based on trying to determine the fielder's intent, and at its extreme, any trick play with any sounds would be illegal.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Well, I find it too nitpicky that yelling, "Get back, get back," is cause for a violation, but yelling, "I got it, I got it!" is perfectly acceptable. There is no play to be made on the thrown ball, so the comment is purely meant to send the runner back.

Luckily, the casebook tells you what to call here, so you can ignore the fact that you, personally, find it too nitpicky. Given that we have this one spelled out for us, we don't have decide on our own whether this is nitpicky or not.

[nopachunts]

Working 2B in a Regional Semi-Final last Friday. Runner on 2B. Defense did a great imitation of the Miami deception play. Runner wanted to go for 3B and the 3BC yelling to stay. It was fun to watch.

Both teams were well coached.