Your call??

[Matt]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

No Malicious contact by anyone?

Peace

Doesn't exist in NCAA.

[jicecone]

Some things to consider for this play.

Collision Rule (NCAA 2014)
SECTION 7. The rules committee is concerned about unnecessary and violent collisions with the catcher at home plate, and with infielders at all bases. The intent of this rule is to encourage base runners and defensive players to avoid such collisions whenever possible.

(1) The runner must make an actual attempt to reach the base (plate). PENALTY—If the runner attempts to dislodge the ball or initiates an avoidable collision, the runner shall be declared out, even if the fielder loses possession of the ball. The ball is dead and all other base runners shall return to the last base touched at the time of the interference.

(2) The runner may not attempt to dislodge the ball from the fielder. Contact above the waist shall be judged by the umpire as an attempt by the runner to dislodge the ball.

PENALTY—If the contact is flagrant or malicious before the runner touches the plate, the runner shall be declared out and also ejected from the contest. The ball is immediately dead and all other base runners shall return to the last base touched at the time of the interference.

(3) The runner must attempt to avoid a collision if he can reach the base without colliding.

PENALTY—If the contact is flagrant or malicious after the runner touches the base (plate), the runner is safe, but is ejected from the contest. The ball is immediately dead and all other base runners shall return to the last base touched at the time of the interference. If this occurs at any base other than home, the offending team may replace the runner. If the contact occurs after a preceding runner touches home plate, the preceding runner is safe. The ball is immediately dead and all other base runners shall return to the last base touched at the time of the contact.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by jicecone

Some things to consider for this play.

Collision Rule (NCAA 2014)
SECTION 7. The rules committee is concerned about unnecessary and violent collisions with the catcher at home plate, and with infielders at all bases. The intent of this rule is to encourage base runners and defensive players to avoid such collisions whenever possible.

(1) The runner must make an actual attempt to reach the base (plate). PENALTY—If the runner attempts to dislodge the ball or initiates an avoidable collision, the runner shall be declared out, even if the fielder loses possession of the ball. The ball is dead and all other base runners shall return to the last base touched at the time of the interference.

(2) The runner may not attempt to dislodge the ball from the fielder. Contact above the waist shall be judged by the umpire as an attempt by the runner to dislodge the ball.

PENALTY—If the contact is flagrant or malicious before the runner touches the plate, the runner shall be declared out and also ejected from the contest. The ball is immediately dead and all other base runners shall return to the last base touched at the time of the interference.

(3) The runner must attempt to avoid a collision if he can reach the base without colliding.

PENALTY—If the contact is flagrant or malicious after the runner touches the base (plate), the runner is safe, but is ejected from the contest. The ball is immediately dead and all other base runners shall return to the last base touched at the time of the interference. If this occurs at any base other than home, the offending team may replace the runner. If the contact occurs after a preceding runner touches home plate, the preceding runner is safe. The ball is immediately dead and all other base runners shall return to the last base touched at the time of the contact.

You forgot the most relevant part--this only applies if the fielder is in possession of the ball.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by Matt

You forgot the most relevant part--this only applies if the fielder is in possession of the ball.

If you parse the rule I don't see where position of the ball is required in all cases.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by umpjim

If you parse the rule I don't see where position of the ball is required in all cases.

That's because he, for some reason, removed it. The missing part is in bold belpw:

"The rules committee is concerned about unnecessary and violent collisions with the catcher at home plate, and with infielders at all bases. The intent of this rule is to encourage base runners and defensive players to avoid such collisions whenever possible.

When there is a collision between a runner and a fielder who clearly is in possession of the ball, the umpire shall judge:

If the defensive player blocks the base (plate) or base line with clear possession of the ball, the runner may make contact, slide into or make contact with a fielder as long as the runner is making a legitimate attempt to reach the base (plate). Contact above the waist that was initiated by the base runner shall not be judged as an attempt to reach the base or plate.

(1) The runner must make an actual attempt to reach the base (plate).

PENALTY: If the runner attempts to dislodge the ball or initiates an avoidable collision, the runner shall be declared out, even if the fielder loses possession of the ball. The ball is dead and all other base runners shall return to the last base touched at the time of the interference.

(2) The runner may not attempt to dislodge the ball from the fielder. Contact above the waist shall be judged by the umpire as an attempt by the runner to dislodge the ball.

PENALTY: If the contact is flagrant or malicious before the runner touches the plate, the runner shall be declared out and also ejected from the contest. The ball is immediately dead and all other base runners shall return to the last base touched at the time of the interference.

(3) The runner must attempt to avoid a collision if he can reach the base without colliding.

PENALTY: If the contact is flagrant or malicious after the runner touches the base (plate), the runner is safe, but is ejected from the contest. The ball is immediately dead and all other base runners shall return to the last base touched at the time of the interference. If this occurs at any base other than home, the offending team may replace the runner.

If the contact occurs after a preceding runner touches home plate, the preceding runner is safe. The ball is immediately dead and all other base runners shall return to the last base touched at the time of the contact.

(4) If the runner's path to the base is blocked and (1), (2), and (3) are fulfilled, it is considered unavoidable contact (see Rule 2-54, Obstruction)."

It's kind of important, because that's the relevant part of the rule.

[jicecone]

Your right Matt because, that part of the rule does only pertain to a fielder in possession of the ball, which was not the case here.

However, Par 3 can be applicable.

The Title of the Rule is "Collision Rule"

I believe it covers both situations though.

JMO

[Matt]

Originally Posted by jicecone

Your right Matt because, that part of the rule does only pertain to a fielder in possession of the ball, which was not the case here.

However, Par 3 can be applicable.

The Title of the Rule is "Collision Rule"

I believe it covers both situations though.

JMO

None of it can be applied (as of now,) and here's why--

The rule was written with the very specific intent of protecting fielders with the ball. The verbage hasn't changed since the adjustments to other related rules. So, the question is if the rule should still be enforced with its original intent, or not? Unless Jim Paranto comes out and says that the clause should have been rewritten, it still refers only to fielders with possession.

[dash_riprock]

It should, but it doesn't. When NCAA changed the obstruction rule in 2011, they neglected to change the Collision Rule as well. The two rules need to be consistent. The Collision Rule should apply whenever the fielder is permitted to completely block the base (plate).

[charliej47]

The "step and a reach" rule for NFHS only pertains to Softball. they have left it out of baseball. The Softball Case book actually has those words in the play.

[johnnyg08]

I think it's important to read the AR's for Interference and Obstruction. Both definitions have AR's that protect the fielder on a ball that is within a step and a reach. In fact I think it's AR 3 under obstruction that states if the ball is within a step and a reach of the fielder the fielder is to be considered in the act of fielding.