Must be a new season

[Rufus]

Coach here with two situations during a game this weekend:

1. 2nd baseman for the opposing team was using a 1st baseman's glove. I've reviewed OBR a bit and didn't see anything specific to the situation other than articulating the dimensions of the glove fielders must use (and I didn't have those dimensions, or a tape measure, handy during the game). Can't find my Fed rulebook and a quick search of USSSA revealed nothing clear. Is there any rule set in which this is legal?
2. HP umpire was giving my catchers advice on how to do their job. We're dealing with 12U rec here but my first reaction was to have them thank them for the advise but that they were getting coaching and needed to concentrate. That's asking a bit much for 12U perhaps so I'm thinking instructing them to give a standard answer of "Thanks" or "Yes sir" would work much better (then do it the way they've been instructed). Any advice on how to instruct kids to deal with (what I'm hoping is) a well-intentioned umpire?

Thanks in advance.

[jTheUmp]

1. Legal in FED... I assume it would be legal in OBR and USSSA as well, but I don't study those rulesets.

2. What type of advice was the umpire giving? If it's of the "back up a little bit so you don't interfere with the swing" or "don't stand up before you catch the ball, I can't see if it's a strike or not" variety... that's good advice for an umpire to give, especially for younger kids. If you do decide to talk to the umpire about it.. be nice.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Coach here with two situations during a game this weekend:

1. 2nd baseman for the opposing team was using a 1st baseman's glove. I've reviewed OBR a bit and didn't see anything specific to the situation other than articulating the dimensions of the glove fielders must use (and I didn't have those dimensions, or a tape measure, handy during the game). Can't find my Fed rulebook and a quick search of USSSA revealed nothing clear. Is there any rule set in which this is legal?
2. HP umpire was giving my catchers advice on how to do their job. We're dealing with 12U rec here but my first reaction was to have them thank them for the advise but that they were getting coaching and needed to concentrate. That's asking a bit much for 12U perhaps so I'm thinking instructing them to give a standard answer of "Thanks" or "Yes sir" would work much better (then do it the way they've been instructed). Any advice on how to instruct kids to deal with (what I'm hoping is) a well-intentioned umpire?

Thanks in advance.

1) is legal in FED but illegal in OBR. In OBR only the catcher and first baseman can use a mitt. Others must use a glove. Read rules 1.12 through 1.15 for the glove/mitt rules. Look at the receiving side of the glove/mitt. If you see individual finger (other than the thumb) pockets it's a glove. If you don't it's a mitt. Just like gloves vs. mittens.

2) Thank the umpire for trying to help but ask him to please give any suggestions directly to you and you'll work on them with the player.

[Rufus]

Thanks for the responses so far. The glove/mitt vs. glove/mitten explanation's a good one!

If the feedback were just positioning I wouldn't have an issue with it (I instruct catchers to position themselves, and receive pitches, in the best way possible to aid umpires so I'm on board with anything that assists with this). The advice given was more "you need to do this to block" and "you should be doing this with your hands." Sounded more like coaching than officiating. Both catchers used that day relayed the same things being said to them.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Rufus

If the feedback were just positioning I wouldn't have an issue with it (I instruct catchers to position themselves, and receive pitches, in the best way possible to aid umpires so I'm on board with anything that assists with this). .

You should have an issue with it. Position in shaving level ball is dependent on the pitch and situation. The catcher goes where he needs to be. The umpire has to adjust if he wishes.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

You should have an issue with it. Position in shaving level ball is dependent on the pitch and situation. The catcher goes where he needs to be. The umpire has to adjust if he wishes.

Agreed, but this was 12U Rec, so some "positioning" can be appropriate.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Rufus

"you need to do this to block" and "you should be doing this with your hands."

Yuck. Umpire has no business saying either - even if asked! UIC should be informed.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

You should have an issue with it. Position in shaving level ball is dependent on the pitch and situation. The catcher goes where he needs to be. The umpire has to adjust if he wishes.

Sorry, should've been more specific. I'm very clear with catchers I teach on how/why to set up, how to receive, and to be aware that they're not doing any of that for their health but to help their pitchers throw strikes. If, during the course of a game, and umpire's giving them feedback on how they're positioning themselves, particularly if they say they're getting blocked by what the catcher's doing, I want the catchers to know that so they can adjust (or at least so we can discuss it in between innings and see if there's anything to be done).

We could get into what's acceptable, and not, for a HP to request in terms of positioning (and part of my original question leans that way) but I always want my players to have a firm enough understanding of the basics that also allows them to adapt to specific game situations. Do we ever achieve that? Sometimes, but I still think adjusting and being adaptable are valuable skills to learn.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Agreed, but this was 12U Rec, so some "positioning" can be appropriate.

Usually, the problem with these catchers is they set up so far back, they cost their pitchers strikes at the bottom of the zone. Sometimes you can solve this by moving up and standing in his (previous) spot as he is throwing the ball back to the pitcher.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

Usually, the problem with these catchers is they set up so far back, they cost their pitchers strikes at the bottom of the zone. Sometimes you can solve this by moving up and standing in his (previous) spot as he is throwing the ball back to the pitcher.

Not me. I'm not forcing the catcher to stop doing something he's legally entitled to do. If his positioning is costing his pitcher strikes, that's on him, and his coach needs to make the adjustment.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Not me. I'm not forcing the catcher to stop doing something he's legally entitled to do. If his positioning is costing his pitcher strikes, that's on him, and his coach needs to make the adjustment.

I'm not forcing him to do anything. He can set up anywhere he wants in his box. And I'll be glad to move if he wants me to.

[nopachunts]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Not me. I'm not forcing the catcher to stop doing something he's legally entitled to do. If his positioning is costing his pitcher strikes, that's on him, and his coach needs to make the adjustment.

I'm with Dash on this. I'm there to get strikes and outs. If F2 is setting up too far back, I will do what Dash said. If F2 says something to me about me crowding him, I will move back.

[DG]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Coach here with two situations during a game this weekend:

HP umpire was giving my catchers advice on how to do their job. We're dealing with 12U rec here but my first reaction was to have them thank them for the advise but that they were getting coaching and needed to concentrate. That's asking a bit much for 12U perhaps so I'm thinking instructing them to give a standard answer of "Thanks" or "Yes sir" would work much better (then do it the way they've been instructed). Any advice on how to instruct kids to deal with (what I'm hoping is) a well-intentioned umpire?

You are asking for advice on how to coach the kids to respond to umpire's coaching. I would tell them to look attentive when the umpire is speaking to them, but say nothing. When half inning is over come to you and tell you what was said. You can then have a discussion with the umpire if you desire, based on what was said.

[Robmoz]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

Usually, the problem with these catchers is they set up so far back, they cost their pitchers strikes at the bottom of the zone. Sometimes you can solve this by moving up and standing in his (previous) spot as he is throwing the ball back to the pitcher.

I don't see how a deep setup would cause the umpire to lose sight of a pitch that could (should) be called a strike if it was indeed a strike - if he is properly positioned to see pitches. The catcher actually has 8' to work with but rarely is more than a foot or two deeper than the batter. Call it where it crossed the plate, not where it hits the catcher's mitt. Any umpire that just calls those pitches Balls is really doing a disservice to the pitcher/catcher.

...sometimes you just gotta umpire.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by Robmoz

I don't see how a deep setup would cause the umpire to lose sight of a pitch that could (should) be called a strike if it was indeed a strike - if he is properly positioned to see pitches. The catcher actually has 8' to work with but rarely is more than a foot or two deeper than the batter. Call it where it crossed the plate, not where it hits the catcher's mitt. Any umpire that just calls those pitches Balls is really doing a disservice to the pitcher/catcher.

...sometimes you just gotta umpire.

It has nothing to do with losing sight of the pitch.

If the pitch nicks the bottom of the zone, and the catcher mashes it into the dirt because he is set up too far back to properly receive the pitch, I'm balling it.