Must be a new season

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Rufus

If the feedback were just positioning I wouldn't have an issue with it (I instruct catchers to position themselves, and receive pitches, in the best way possible to aid umpires so I'm on board with anything that assists with this). .

You should have an issue with it. Position in shaving level ball is dependent on the pitch and situation. The catcher goes where he needs to be. The umpire has to adjust if he wishes.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

You should have an issue with it. Position in shaving level ball is dependent on the pitch and situation. The catcher goes where he needs to be. The umpire has to adjust if he wishes.

Agreed, but this was 12U Rec, so some "positioning" can be appropriate.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Agreed, but this was 12U Rec, so some "positioning" can be appropriate.

Usually, the problem with these catchers is they set up so far back, they cost their pitchers strikes at the bottom of the zone. Sometimes you can solve this by moving up and standing in his (previous) spot as he is throwing the ball back to the pitcher.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

Usually, the problem with these catchers is they set up so far back, they cost their pitchers strikes at the bottom of the zone. Sometimes you can solve this by moving up and standing in his (previous) spot as he is throwing the ball back to the pitcher.

Not me. I'm not forcing the catcher to stop doing something he's legally entitled to do. If his positioning is costing his pitcher strikes, that's on him, and his coach needs to make the adjustment.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Not me. I'm not forcing the catcher to stop doing something he's legally entitled to do. If his positioning is costing his pitcher strikes, that's on him, and his coach needs to make the adjustment.

I'm not forcing him to do anything. He can set up anywhere he wants in his box. And I'll be glad to move if he wants me to.

[nopachunts]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Not me. I'm not forcing the catcher to stop doing something he's legally entitled to do. If his positioning is costing his pitcher strikes, that's on him, and his coach needs to make the adjustment.

I'm with Dash on this. I'm there to get strikes and outs. If F2 is setting up too far back, I will do what Dash said. If F2 says something to me about me crowding him, I will move back.

[Robmoz]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

Usually, the problem with these catchers is they set up so far back, they cost their pitchers strikes at the bottom of the zone. Sometimes you can solve this by moving up and standing in his (previous) spot as he is throwing the ball back to the pitcher.

I don't see how a deep setup would cause the umpire to lose sight of a pitch that could (should) be called a strike if it was indeed a strike - if he is properly positioned to see pitches. The catcher actually has 8' to work with but rarely is more than a foot or two deeper than the batter. Call it where it crossed the plate, not where it hits the catcher's mitt. Any umpire that just calls those pitches Balls is really doing a disservice to the pitcher/catcher.

...sometimes you just gotta umpire.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by Robmoz

I don't see how a deep setup would cause the umpire to lose sight of a pitch that could (should) be called a strike if it was indeed a strike - if he is properly positioned to see pitches. The catcher actually has 8' to work with but rarely is more than a foot or two deeper than the batter. Call it where it crossed the plate, not where it hits the catcher's mitt. Any umpire that just calls those pitches Balls is really doing a disservice to the pitcher/catcher.

...sometimes you just gotta umpire.

It has nothing to do with losing sight of the pitch.

If the pitch nicks the bottom of the zone, and the catcher mashes it into the dirt because he is set up too far back to properly receive the pitch, I'm balling it.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by Robmoz

I don't see how a deep setup would cause the umpire to lose sight of a pitch that could (should) be called a strike if it was indeed a strike - if he is properly positioned to see pitches. The catcher actually has 8' to work with but rarely is more than a foot or two deeper than the batter. Call it where it crossed the plate, not where it hits the catcher's mitt. Any umpire that just calls those pitches Balls is really doing a disservice to the pitcher/catcher.

...sometimes you just gotta umpire.

FACT

And any umpire that officiates any type of decent baseball and calls balls and strikes strickly by where it crosses the plate, is not officiating decent baseball for very long.....!

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by jicecone

FACT

And any umpire that officiates any type of decent baseball and calls balls and strikes strickly by where it crosses the plate, is not officiating decent baseball for very long.....!

I believe the MLB tracking systems (the official ones, not the TV network ones) measure the area over the plate and rate the umpires accordingly.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

I believe the MLB tracking systems (the official ones, not the TV network ones) measure the area over the plate and rate the umpires accordingly.

Except that the pitch that hits the bottom of the zone and then hits the dirt (not sure the exact criteria for this) is properly called a "ball" even in the tracking system

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by jicecone

FACT

And any umpire that officiates any type of decent baseball and calls balls and strikes strickly by where it crosses the plate, is not officiating decent baseball for very long.....!

Well, if it's "decent baseball", then you aren't going to be dealing with catchers that set up that deep in the box in the first place. And it's easier to sell a Ball call on a pitch that hits the dirt after nicking the lower part of the zone in "decent baseball" because it will likely be a nasty breaker.

[Robmoz]

Originally Posted by jicecone

FACT

And any umpire that officiates any type of decent baseball and calls balls and strikes strickly by where it crosses the plate, is not officiating decent baseball for very long.....!

Really? ...and any umpire that decides to just make up his own rules about the strike zone (i.e. "one off on the inside, two off on the outside") is not officiating decent baseball for very long...FACT!

But that begs the question as to what is considered "decent" baseball, I guess.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by Robmoz

Really? ...and any umpire that decides to just make up his own rules about the strike zone (i.e. "one off on the inside, two off on the outside") is not officiating decent baseball for very long...FACT!

But that begs the question as to what is considered "decent" baseball, I guess.

What ever works for you!!!!!

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

You should have an issue with it. Position in shaving level ball is dependent on the pitch and situation. The catcher goes where he needs to be. The umpire has to adjust if he wishes.

Sorry, should've been more specific. I'm very clear with catchers I teach on how/why to set up, how to receive, and to be aware that they're not doing any of that for their health but to help their pitchers throw strikes. If, during the course of a game, and umpire's giving them feedback on how they're positioning themselves, particularly if they say they're getting blocked by what the catcher's doing, I want the catchers to know that so they can adjust (or at least so we can discuss it in between innings and see if there's anything to be done).

We could get into what's acceptable, and not, for a HP to request in terms of positioning (and part of my original question leans that way) but I always want my players to have a firm enough understanding of the basics that also allows them to adapt to specific game situations. Do we ever achieve that? Sometimes, but I still think adjusting and being adaptable are valuable skills to learn.