Dropped third strike

[Bob Lyle]

After lurking here for several months, this is my first post and I have a weird question.

American Legion tournament, no one on, 1 out, 2-2 count. The catcher short hopped a curve ball in the dirt that the batter swung and missed. The batter started back to the third base dugout and just before entering it someone told him to run. The ball was being thrown around the infield because the defense was celebrating the strikeout. The fielders were not paying attention.

The BR raced across the infield, near the mound, and started to pass the surprised pitcher, who had his back toward the BR and who tried to get out of the way at the last minute, but they ended up colliding with each other.

The umpires ruled obstruction on the pitcher and awarded the BR first base.

The coach for the defense ended up getting ejected along with the pitcher. Since I was only a fan, I don't know what was said or what the umpires were thinking. Would one of the rules gurus please enlighten me.

Thanks

[David B]

Originally posted by Bob Lyle
The BR raced across the infield, near the mound, and started to pass the surprised pitcher, who had his back toward the BR and who tried to get out of the way at the last minute, but they ended up colliding with each other.

The umpires ruled obstruction on the pitcher and awarded the BR first base.

Well the batter does have the right to run to first as long as he has not entered the dugout, and his baseline is established by where he begins and the base. (similiar to the guy who takes the turn at first and goes halfway to right field)

So, if he was in his base line and F1 obstructed him, I think you have to call obstruction.

My question would be what did the PU signal? Did he signal the out, did he point and not signal the out etc.,?

If the PU handles this correctly then everyone knows BR can run and it could avoid such a situation.

I can't believe in ALegion ball a kid would not know that part of the rule, but then in my area Legion ball is the elite kids.

Have to admit, I haven't had this one in my games.

Thanks
DAvid

[Warren Willson]

Originally posted by Bob Lyle
The umpires ruled obstruction on the pitcher and awarded the BR first base.

The coach for the defense ended up getting ejected along with the pitcher. Since I was only a fan, I don't know what was said or what the umpires were thinking. Would one of the rules gurus please enlighten me.

Sounds like a pretty good call to me.

The pitch couldn't be caught, by rule, so it was treated as a dropped K2. [see OBR 2.00 Definition of A Ball] The B-R was legally entitled to attempt to acquire 1st base.

The batter-runner cannot abandon the base path, and isn't considered to have deserted it either, until he reaches the dugout. [see OBR 6.09(b)Comment] The B-R was entitled to turn for 1st and run.

Obstruction is any act by the defense without the ball that hinders or impedes the runner's legitimate effort to acquire a base. [see OBR 7.06(a)] The pitcher impeded the B-R in his effort to reach 1st base.

Any player, coach, manager who objects to decisions may be disqualified and ejected. [see OBR 9.01(d)]. The pitcher and defensive coach each must have objected to the umpire's decision on the play.

There you have it, Bob. Hope this helps.

Cheers.

[Ump20]

Originally posted by Bob Lyle
After lurking here for several months, this is my first post and I have a weird question.

American Legion tournament, no one on, 1 out, 2-2 count. The catcher short hopped a curve ball in the dirt that the batter swung and missed. The batter started back to the third base dugout and just before entering it someone told him to run. The ball was being thrown around the infield because the defense was celebrating the strikeout. The fielders were not paying attention.

As long as he has not entered dead ball area he can try for first-base.

The BR raced across the infield, near the mound, and started to pass the surprised pitcher, who had his back toward the BR and who tried to get out of the way at the last minute, but they ended up colliding with each other.

The batter-runner's baseline is a direct path to first from where he began near the dugout. The fact that the pitcher had his back turned makes this a tough call. Yes obstruction is not contingent upon intent but not a heck of a lot of runners get obstructed near the mound!

The umpires ruled obstruction on the pitcher and awarded the BR first base.

Technically this sounds like the correct call albeit not a popular one for the Defense.

The coach for the defense ended up getting ejected along with the pitcher. Since I was only a fan, I don't know what was said or what the umpires were thinking. Would one of the rules gurus please enlighten me.

Thanks

Let the defensive coach instruct the catcher on what and what is not a caught third-strike. Both the Defense and the Offense screwed this one up. I assume the umpires were aware that this was an uncaught strike-three. In these cases you have to check if he has entered dead ball area and bang him out even casually if he has.

[Bfair]

Under the situation you cite with the pitcher's back to the BR going to 1B, I'm very apt to consider the action of the runner one where the BR ran into the pitcher in an attempt to bait an obstruction call. Obstruction is a judgment call, and the BR had a wide open field in which to run.

It sounds like a bait job to me, and if it wasn't, it still could have easily be sold as one. Getting an obstruction call from me on this play isn't going to happen unless F1 does something obvious and intentional to obstruct BR. My judgment on this play (and I don't have to see the play) is that the BR tried an unsuccessful baiting of obstruction.


Freix

[Ump20]

Originally posted by Bfair
Under the situation you cite with the pitcher's back to the BR going to 1B, I'm very apt to consider the action of the runner one where the BR ran into the pitcher in an attempt to bait an obstruction call. Obstruction is a judgment call, and the BR had a wide open field in which to run.

It sounds like a bait job to me, and if it wasn't, it still could have easily be sold as one. Getting an obstruction call from me on this play isn't going to happen unless F1 does something obvious and intentional to obstruct BR. My judgment on this play (and I don't have to see the play) is that the BR tried an unsuccessful baiting of obstruction.


Freix

Interesting that your impression was the very first thing I considered i.e. that the batter-runner caused the obstruction. I think it is most important to call attention here to that possibility. I also considered that with this call the umpires in effect are rewarding the stupidity of the offense. BUT the defense was equally stupid and stupid happens in baseball.

I think you had to be there to determine good call/bad call. As described the pitcher had his back turned and was unaware of the batter-runner until the last moment. In this case if the batter-runner continued in that straight-line toward first-base it sounds as if it was the proper call. This sounds like one of those wild and wacky situations that will NEVER HAPPEN in a real game -- then it does. Jim/NYC

[chuckfan1]

BFAIR: "Baiting the obstruction"? I highly doubt, (from reading the post) that the BR had that in his mind. This kind of play, happens what, once every 20 yrs? And maybe not even that. And the batter is going to have the nads to think of running into the pitcher on purpose?? The BR is going back to the dugout, and everyone starts screaming go to first. So from where hes at, he turns and runs, having no clue if hes doing the right thing (running across the infield) or not.
Then you say, as ALL THIS is going on, hes going to think ,... "hey, Ill just plow into pitch, and pull me an obstruction". Possible? Ummm sure. About 1% chance out of a 100.
I know its a HTBT, but this type of play, Im confident we can go with the posters description as to what happenned.
To me, its a big ole cluster f*** of a play, and I salute the blue who called it this way, to one of those plays the rest of us will probably never see, let alone, rule on.

[JEL]

I can only hope I don't see this one. After reading posts, and rule book, and thinking for a day or so, I can say this ump made the call right, however un-popular it was,(if he had called BR out, there would probably have been no arguement from either side!). I can only hope my micro-processor would be able to think as fast as this ump did. As to the baiting, yeah, you would have to be there, but the post did say F1 tried to get out of the way at the last minute, so who knows. Thanks to all for the post, and replies, if this one ever happens in one of my games, I can probably get call right.

[Bob Lyle]

When I told you of the situation, I was sitting at the game with my laptop. The field was in a wi-fi hot spot so I could ask my question right after the situation unfolded. After the game I got some more details from my son. My son was on the team that benefited from the call so we thought it was a great call. I was unsure of all of the reasoning so that's why I fired off a quick message. I knew you guys would come through.

First, the pitcher did not get ejected. He immediately left the game and the park to go to the emergency room to have his hand x-rayed. It turned out that he was hurt in the collison with the BR, although from the stands it did not look like a violent collision at all. He had a splint on his pitching hand last night.

The game was delayed for about 20 minutes while this cluster boink was sorted out. Obviously, with a mess like this they did not get back to playing ball right away. According to my son, the other teams coach was ejected for insisting on protesting the game. This makes no sense to me but my son may not have all the facts so don't hang your hat on it.

The situation happened in the 6th inning. For the rest of the 10 inning game, the other teams parents rode the umpires unmercifully. Gee, what a surprise. It had been a quiet game up until that point.

Since I also umpire and these umpires are part of our association, I'm sure that I'll learn more about what happened later on.

Finally, after reading Bfairs message, the following info may have a bearing on the problem. My son told me that the pitcher and the BR had been dating the same girl. The pitcher had plunked the BR in the first inning. My son does not know whether the BR deliberately went after the pitcher but that was the rumor at last nights game which my sons team got to play in by virtue of winning the game in question.

[Ump20]

Originally posted by Bob Lyle
...
The game was delayed for about 20 minutes while this cluster boink was sorted out. Obviously, with a mess like this they did not get back to playing ball right away. According to my son, the other teams coach was ejected for insisting on protesting the game. This makes no sense to me but my son may not have all the facts so don't hang your hat on it...

You can't protest a judgment call but rather than waste 20 minutes I'd likely tell the coach that, sign his book anyway, and move on. No reason if the umpires had the game under control that we needed to wait 20 minutes to resume.

The situation happened in the 6th inning. For the rest of the 10 inning game, the other teams parents rode the umpires unmercifully. Gee, what a surprise. It had been a quiet game up until that point.

If the coach doesn’t understand the rule fat chance that the fans do.

Since I also umpire and these umpires are part of our association, I'm sure that I'll learn more about what happened later on.

Remember no fair telling your son trade secrets.

Finally, after reading Bfairs message, the following info may have a bearing on the problem. My son told me that the pitcher and the BR had been dating the same girl. The pitcher had plunked the BR in the first inning. My son does not know whether the BR deliberately went after the pitcher but that was the rumor at last nights game which my sons team got to play in by virtue of winning the game in question.

Now we get to the bottom of the matter. Sounds as if we didn't have obstruction after all but could have ejected the batter-runner...And all this over a girl! Sheezzz Jim/NYC