Mariners Manager Confusion, Helps Cost Team Game...

[grunewar]

Mariners manager confuses left and right, helps cost his team a game | For The Win

Never heard of this one happening before. Ever happen to anyone? I would think it pretty rare.

[Manny A]

So, it's okay if an umpire initially rules a runner Out, and then changes it to Safe when he realizes his mistake. But a manager can't correct an incorrect arm raise while approaching the mound? Is it in the MLBUM that an arm raise constitutes an announced substitution?

Can't say anything like that would happen to me. I've never recognized a substitution until the manager or head coach verbally reports it to me.

[pob14]

Is that really a rule, though? I don't see anything remotely like it in MLB rules (though I could have missed it) - is it in the MLBUM, or is it one of those "unwritten rule" things?

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by pob14

Is that really a rule, though? I don't see anything remotely like it in MLB rules (though I could have missed it) - is it in the MLBUM, or is it one of those "unwritten rule" things?

From my 2010 PBUC: "Motioning to the bullpen is to be considered an official substitution for the new pitcher."

The MLBUM does not have this wording but does have a play example that says: "Legal, provided the manager has not signaled to the bullpen prior to informing the umpire of the multiple substitution."

In OBR and NCAA announced subs are in the game when the manager tells the umpire. If they tell you Joe is in for John, wait no, Mike is in for John, they have technically burned Joe. At the levels I umpire at I don't hold the managers to a mistakenly uttered sub. I don't know if they are that strict in MiLB or MLB but at least as far as the pitcher goes, yes.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by umpjim

From my 2010 PBUC: "Motioning to the bullpen is to be considered an official substitution for the new pitcher."

I don't necessarily read that as saying, "A motion with the left arm to the bullpen is to be considered an official substitution for the left-handed new pitcher who is warming up" or vice versa.

What happens when the manager motions to the bullpen with a left arm, and two right-handed pitchers are warming up? Does that mean whoever is in the bullpen that is still left-handed is the one who should come in?

Now that I think of it, why is the manager committed to calling in a pitcher who is actually warming up? Where does it say anywhere that if a manager makes a motion to the bullpen, he MUST bring in the pitcher who is up and throwing? What if he wants to bring in someone else who wasn't warming up?

Sorry, but I would argue that Darling overstepped his authority here. A motion to the bullpen should only be an indication that the current pitcher is done for the day. But the PBUC wording doesn't imply to me that the manager is committed to a certain player based upon which arm he uses to make that motion. If he's got six pitchers in the bullpen, he should have the wherewithal to pick any one of those six.

[briancurtin]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Now that I think of it, why is the manager committed to calling in a pitcher who is actually warming up? Where does it say anywhere that if a manager makes a motion to the bullpen, he MUST bring in the pitcher who is up and throwing? What if he wants to bring in someone else who wasn't warming up?

It is that way because of the sentence you quoted and another one elsewhere in the thread.

Think about it. Is a manager going to walk on the field, wave "hi" to his bullpen coach, and then turn around and grab a cold pitcher out of the dugout?

I think we are missing something. When the manager comes out and motions with the left arm....he immediately pulls it back and tries to signal right arm. Watch his body language, he looks like a kid caught doing something wrong. Why would he have this reaction if he can call any pitcher he wants?

[bluehair]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I think we are missing something. When the manager comes out and motions with the left arm....he immediately pulls it back and tries to signal right arm. Watch his body language, he looks like a kid caught doing something wrong. Why would he have this reaction if he can call any pitcher he wants?

That would probably be more evidence that it shouldn't have mattered if a manager/coach thought that it did matter.

Too bad Seattle didn't protest the game. Without a protest, MLB may not address the situation.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by briancurtin

It is that way because of the sentence you quoted and another one elsewhere in the thread.

Think about it. Is a manager going to walk on the field, wave "hi" to his bullpen coach, and then turn around and grab a cold pitcher out of the dugout?

No he wouldn't. But there's nothing I'm aware of in the rules that says he can't decide to pick a pitcher from the dugout if he so desires. What from strictly a rules standpoint commits him to only the pitcher warming up?

[UMP45]

Originally Posted by bluehair

That would probably be more evidence that it shouldn't have mattered if a manager/coach thought that it did matter.

Too bad Seattle didn't protest the game. Without a protest, MLB may not address the situation.

Maybe the situation doesn't need to be addressed.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I think we are missing something. When the manager comes out and motions with the left arm....he immediately pulls it back and tries to signal right arm. Watch his body language, he looks like a kid caught doing something wrong. Why would he have this reaction if he can call any pitcher he wants?

Again, my point (no pun intended) was that I have never seen anything written that says when a manager uses his left arm to signal the bullpen, he is officially announcing that the left-handed pitcher currently warming up must enter the game.

Someone else posted a PBUC cite that says a motion to the bullpen constitutes a new pitcher entry. Fine, I can live with that. But all that tells me is that the current pitcher is done for the game. It doesn't tell me specifically who is required to come in, unless there is more wording in the PBUC that wasn't posted.

Suppose only a righty is warming up, but there was a lefty warming up the previous inning. The manager comes out of the dugout, and inadvertently points to his left arm as he signals the bullpen, forgetting that his lefty is no longer throwing. What do you do then?