fair or foul

[frozenrope22]

16U High school rules Batter hits a shot down the right field line. Base umpire calls the ball foul and indicates with his arm ball is foul. RF slows his pursuit of the ball and then home plate umpire starts yelling "fair" "fair". Batter makes it all the way to 3rd before the RF can make a play. Needless to say lots of arguing but no ejections.

Final outcome is play stands. Fair ball with runner on third. How should the umpires handle the double call?

[Ump29]

Shoot the PU for making a call not his.

[JJ]

No ejections?

JJ

[RPatrino]

Once called foul, a ball is always foul. Mostly...

[bob jenkins]

Under FED, it remains a foul ball.

Under NCAA, place the runner where you think he would have ende dup had the ball been called fair initially (I'm assuming here that the ball really was fair.)

[MD Longhorn]

What happened when the coach protested the incorrect application of rule?

(I also wonder what happened when UIC learned he has an umpire who would EVER say the word "Fair" out loud)

[Robmoz]

How about the opposite situation, U3 signals fair ball and it is clearly foul according to the HP partner (who commented as such after we walked off the field), once play is concluded the 3B coach ask U3 to go for help and U3 says he saw it clearly. Coach now goes to HP and asks him to offer his info to his partner but HP says the call will stand since he will not offer unless asked by U3 who is not going to ask for it. Should HP step up and correct the call if he truly feels U3 kicked it or should the crew just live with U3's call? Granted, U3 could have taken the opportunity to go for help but he chose not to. FYI, this was a 16U championship game ending play. Hell, I was U1 and it sure looked foul from my crappy angle across the diamond, lol.

[xtremeump]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

What happened when the coach protested the incorrect application of rule?

(I also wonder what happened when UIC learned he has an umpire who would EVER say the word "Fair" out loud)

I would have been ejected...

[Matt]

Originally Posted by xtremeump

Hey Tex, what is the incorrect application of what rule ???

In FED rules, it is not allowed to change a foul ball to fair.

[xtremeump]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

What happened when the coach protested the incorrect application of rule?

(I also wonder what happened when UIC learned he has an umpire who would EVER say the word "Fair" out loud)

Never say never, I know it is never said but I had an Umpire that needed to say that's a fair ball in a Varsity ball game. The ball came off the bat over the dish and the F2 hopped up to get it and just threw the ball back to F1. The PU is pointing fair and nothing happened, so he yelled that's a fair ball...

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Robmoz

How about the opposite situation, U3 signals fair ball and it is clearly foul according to the HP partner (who commented as such after we walked off the field), once play is concluded the 3B coach ask U3 to go for help and U3 says he saw it clearly. Coach now goes to HP and asks him to offer his info to his partner but HP says the call will stand since he will not offer unless asked by U3 who is not going to ask for it. Should HP step up and correct the call if he truly feels U3 kicked it or should the crew just live with U3's call? Granted, U3 could have taken the opportunity to go for help but he chose not to. FYI, this was a 16U championship game ending play. Hell, I was U1 and it sure looked foul from my crappy angle across the diamond, lol.

If U3 saw it clearly one way, and PU saw it clearly another way --- who is to say, for sure, that one umpire's judgement is more "correct" than the other umpire's judgement? A call belongs to one umpire - for a reason.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by xtremeump

Never say never, I know it is never said but I had an Umpire that needed to say that's a fair ball in a Varsity ball game. The ball came off the bat over the dish and the F2 hopped up to get it and just threw the ball back to F1. The PU is pointing fair and nothing happened, so he yelled that's a fair ball...

Then I'll stick with never. He should not have yelled a damn thing. Just stand to the side and point fair. Someone will get it eventually.

[john5396]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Then I'll stick with never. He should not have yelled a damn thing. Just stand to the side and point fair. Someone will get it eventually.

I agree with never, even with the little kids. Had a game years ago working 10-12yr old recreation. My partner was 16 year old kid, he was PU. bases loaded no outs. Pitch hits the knob of the bat and rolls 6 feet fair toward pitcher. No one moves. My partner correctly steps out from behind the plate and points fair. Cathcher walks over and picks up the ball. Coach yells "The ump wants the ball" so the kid walks to my partner who starts walking away from player trying to hand him the ball. Finally a parent yells "RUN". 2 outs and 2 runs later, I still don't know quite what happenned. But it was fun.

[xtremeump]

HTBT

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Then I'll stick with never. He should not have yelled a damn thing. Just stand to the side and point fair. Someone will get it eventually.

He said that's a fair ball... What is the punishment for breaking that rule and managing the game against your rule. I agree HTBT, I did not have a problem in that sitch???:

[RPatrino]

So you yell FAIR and everyone stops, because they don't expect to hear anything but FOUL. How do you handle that?