The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Baseball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 06, 2013, 08:45am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,230
Pitcher pulsing foot

Last night I got a text asking me a NFHS baseball rule and thought I would run it by the board to see how others call this as well.

A pitcher from the stretch would start to bring his hands together and continually pulse his foot until his hands came to a complete stop in the set position. They wanted to know if this was legal.

Under NCAA rules, I would not call this a balk. NCAA requires (9-1-b) that the pitcher shall come to the set position using a continuous hand motion before pitching to the batter.

However, under FED rules, I do call this a balk. The pitcher is not coming to the set position without interruption and in one continuous motion (6-1-3). Additionally, this move is obviously trying to keep the runner off balance in an attempt to simulate the start of a pitch or a throw to a base (2-28-5). I have not seen this for years at the high school level but I'm sure like all things, it's coming downhill from MLB and NCAA.

How does everyone else handle this differently? Any thoughts?

-Josh
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 06, 2013, 09:21am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 17,002
Not a balk.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 06, 2013, 09:22am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: South Bend, In.
Posts: 2,192
Send a message via AIM to BigUmp56 Send a message via Yahoo to BigUmp56
I'm having a hard time envisioning what "pulses his foot" means.

It it just a nervous tick the player makes with his foot?

If he's lifting the foot, balk him. If he's buckling his knee toward a base, balk him.


Tim.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 06, 2013, 09:49am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,716
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigUmp56 View Post
I'm having a hard time envisioning what "pulses his foot" means.

It it just a nervous tick the player makes with his foot?

If he's lifting the foot, balk him. If he's buckling his knee toward a base, balk him.


Tim.
It must be like wiggling your ears but, the result is the same. actually I have never seen it either.

I once worked with a guy that balked a kid twice for lifting his pivot foot up off the pitching plate and setting it back down to pitch, in the windup. Maybe about a 1/2 inch. After throwing out the coach and making a complete A** of hisself, I told him to stand in the field and get the calls right on the basesw, I will call the Balks.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 06, 2013, 10:30am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: South Bend, In.
Posts: 2,192
Send a message via AIM to BigUmp56 Send a message via Yahoo to BigUmp56
Quote:
Originally Posted by jicecone View Post
It must be like wiggling your ears but, the result is the same. actually I have never seen it either.

I once worked with a guy that balked a kid twice for lifting his pivot foot up off the pitching plate and setting it back down to pitch, in the windup. Maybe about a 1/2 inch. After throwing out the coach and making a complete A** of hisself, I told him to stand in the field and get the calls right on the basesw, I will call the Balks.
On most of the fields I work it's almost impossible for a pitcher to NOT lift his pivot foot and set it back down as he steps into the hole in front of the rubber. I know exactly the motion you're talking about.

Tim.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 06, 2013, 10:45am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: CT
Posts: 2,439
Let it go!
__________________
When in doubt, bang 'em out!
Ozzy
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 06, 2013, 10:49am
Stirrer of the Pot
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Lowcountry, SC
Posts: 2,261
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigUmp56 View Post
I'm having a hard time envisioning what "pulses his foot" means.
I've seen a couple of MLB pitchers who, while going to the Set, will pick up their free foot slightly and put it back down repeatedly (about three to five times) before they finally come to the required stop. I think that's what the OP is describing.

I don't see how that really violates anything. It's not like they continue to do it after the hands come to the stop. And I really don't see how that simulates the start of a pitch or throw to a base.

Pitchers are given a little latitude to do quirky stuff when the go from the Stretch to the Set. I recall John Rocker tapping the ball against the inside of his glove as his hands came down in front of his body. Mike Mussina used to take a step towards home and lean forward with his upper body before he brought his foot back towards the pitcher's plate and stood erect. Nobody ever said anything about those moves under OBR.

As for FED, who knows. They balk the gorilla arm swing while the pitcher looks in for the sign, so they may feel this is illegal as well.
__________________
"Let's face it. Umpiring is not an easy or happy way to make a living. In the abuse they suffer, and the pay they get for it, you see an imbalance that can only be explained by their need to stay close to a game they can't resist." -- Bob Uecker
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 06, 2013, 11:59am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Washington
Posts: 1,491
Send a message via AIM to RPatrino Send a message via Yahoo to RPatrino
Things pulsing on the field, OMG, the horror.
__________________
Bob P.

-----------------------
We are stewards of baseball. Our customers aren't schools or coaches or conferences. Our customer is the game itself.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 06, 2013, 12:35pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 750
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
I've seen a couple of MLB pitchers who, while going to the Set, will pick up their free foot slightly and put it back down repeatedly (about three to five times) before they finally come to the required stop. I think that's what the OP is describing.

I don't see how that really violates anything. It's not like they continue to do it after the hands come to the stop. And I really don't see how that simulates the start of a pitch or throw to a base.

Pitchers are given a little latitude to do quirky stuff when the go from the Stretch to the Set. I recall John Rocker tapping the ball against the inside of his glove as his hands came down in front of his body. Mike Mussina used to take a step towards home and lean forward with his upper body before he brought his foot back towards the pitcher's plate and stood erect. Nobody ever said anything about those moves under OBR.

As for FED, who knows. They balk the gorilla arm swing while the pitcher looks in for the sign, so they may feel this is illegal as well.
Mariano Rivera comes to mind with several toe taps on the way to coming set. I haven't seen him lately so I don't know if he still does it.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 06, 2013, 01:01pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: South Bend, In.
Posts: 2,192
Send a message via AIM to BigUmp56 Send a message via Yahoo to BigUmp56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
I've seen a couple of MLB pitchers who, while going to the Set, will pick up their free foot slightly and put it back down repeatedly (about three to five times) before they finally come to the required stop. I think that's what the OP is describing.

I don't see how that really violates anything. It's not like they continue to do it after the hands come to the stop. And I really don't see how that simulates the start of a pitch or throw to a base.

Pitchers are given a little latitude to do quirky stuff when the go from the Stretch to the Set. I recall John Rocker tapping the ball against the inside of his glove as his hands came down in front of his body. Mike Mussina used to take a step towards home and lean forward with his upper body before he brought his foot back towards the pitcher's plate and stood erect. Nobody ever said anything about those moves under OBR.

As for FED, who knows. They balk the gorilla arm swing while the pitcher looks in for the sign, so they may feel this is illegal as well.
I can understand why they wouldn't call this in an MLB game, Manny. But in a game played by HS aged players, I think lifting and re-setting the free foot should probably be balked. Runners at that level are taught to key on a number of things the pitcher does as they're leading off. The free foot being a primary focus.


Tim.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 06, 2013, 02:53pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 17,002
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigUmp56 View Post
I can understand why they wouldn't call this in an MLB game, Manny. But in a game played by HS aged players, I think lifting and re-setting the free foot should probably be balked. Runners at that level are taught to key on a number of things the pitcher does as they're leading off. The free foot being a primary focus.


Tim.
Yes, but keying on the tapping foot AS the pitcher is coming set isn't one of them.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 06, 2013, 03:29pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Tyler, Texas
Posts: 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by umpjim View Post
Mariano Rivera comes to mind with several toe taps on the way to coming set. I haven't seen him lately so I don't know if he still does it.
Or Mike Adams
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jun 08, 2013, 03:36am
In Time Out
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,263
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigUmp56 View Post
I'm having a hard time envisioning what "pulses his foot" means.

It it just a nervous tick the player makes with his foot?

If he's lifting the foot, balk him. If he's buckling his knee toward a base, balk him.


Tim.
Complete and discernible stop doesn't apply to just the hands. If he stops his hands, and his foot, or other body parts is still moving, he can move his hands again.
__________________
I have nipples, Greg. Can you milk me?
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jun 08, 2013, 03:41am
In Time Out
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,263
Quote:
Originally Posted by nopachunts View Post
Or Mike Adams
Hideki Nomo used to completely stop before he delivered the pitch home from the windup. Technically a balk.

Mussina would actually come to a stop with hands together, and bent completely over at the waist. He would then raise his upper torso up, and stop again............MLB umpires don't nitpick the usual unusual moves.
__________________
I have nipples, Greg. Can you milk me?
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jun 09, 2013, 06:43am
Stirrer of the Pot
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Lowcountry, SC
Posts: 2,261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Tyler View Post
Hideki Nomo used to completely stop before he delivered the pitch home from the windup. Technically a balk.
Unless there were no runners, and that's when he pitched from the windup. He probably would've been called for a balk if there was someone on base, I'm guessing.
__________________
"Let's face it. Umpiring is not an easy or happy way to make a living. In the abuse they suffer, and the pay they get for it, you see an imbalance that can only be explained by their need to stay close to a game they can't resist." -- Bob Uecker
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bottom opf foot Foot pain HugoTafurst Softball 37 Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:10am
Two things: Pitcher in stretch non-pivot foot position, hanging the leg biggravy Baseball 3 Sun Apr 18, 2010 08:46am
Pitcher foot off pitching plate MakeDacall Softball 4 Mon Jun 08, 2009 08:04am
Balk -- Right-handed Pitcher Raises Free Foot jbmth Baseball 2 Mon May 06, 2002 09:32pm
One foot or Two Art N Basketball 2 Tue Feb 22, 2000 10:18am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:52pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1