Baserunning question - little league

[recoachtn]

I have a little league (seniors) baserunning rules question.

Runners on first and second. Batter gets basehit to right field. Runners advance. Throwing error has lead runner heading to home and middle runner heading to third. Lead runner touches home but, due to confusion of coaches/parents yelling "back, back" (meant for middle runner now rounding third), lead runner heads back to third base. Middle runner heads home and passes lead runner now heading back to third. Fielding team tags both runners.

Ruling - Both runners are safe and runs count.

Question: Shouldn't one of the runners be out either because the middle runner has now passed the lead runner or for play interference by inappropriately reentering the field of play?

Nobody at the game has ever seen this happen after the lead runner has crossed home plate. Neither umpire seemed sure of the correct ruling or rule.

If anybody can tell me what the correct ruling should have been and, if possible, the rule that governs, I would greatly appreciate it.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by recoachtn

I have a little league (seniors) baserunning rules question.

Runners on first and second. Batter gets basehit to right field. Runners advance. Throwing error has lead runner heading to home and middle runner heading to third. Lead runner touches home but, due to confusion of coaches/parents yelling "back, back" (meant for middle runner now rounding third), lead runner heads back to third base. Middle runner heads home and passes lead runner now heading back to third. Fielding team tags both runners.

Ruling - Both runners are safe and runs count.

Question: Shouldn't one of the runners be out either because the middle runner has now passed the lead runner or for play interference by inappropriately reentering the field of play?

Nobody at the game has ever seen this happen after the lead runner has crossed home plate. Neither umpire seemed sure of the correct ruling or rule.

If anybody can tell me what the correct ruling should have been and, if possible, the rule that governs, I would greatly appreciate it.

Once a runner scores you can not unscore it. Can't find the reference right now. Where was the trailing runner tagged out?

[Matt]

Originally Posted by recoachtn

I have a little league (seniors) baserunning rules question.

Runners on first and second. Batter gets basehit to right field. Runners advance. Throwing error has lead runner heading to home and middle runner heading to third. Lead runner touches home but, due to confusion of coaches/parents yelling "back, back" (meant for middle runner now rounding third), lead runner heads back to third base. Middle runner heads home and passes lead runner now heading back to third. Fielding team tags both runners.

Ruling - Both runners are safe and runs count.

Question: Shouldn't one of the runners be out either because the middle runner has now passed the lead runner or for play interference by inappropriately reentering the field of play?

Nobody at the game has ever seen this happen after the lead runner has crossed home plate. Neither umpire seemed sure of the correct ruling or rule.

If anybody can tell me what the correct ruling should have been and, if possible, the rule that governs, I would greatly appreciate it.

Once the lead runner (we call him R2, since he started on second) has legally scored, he is no longer a runner, so the following runner (R1) cannot be called out for passing. However, there is no rule against mistakenly attempting to fix a baserunning error, so R2 is not violating anything by returning (if LL still mirrors OBR, the rule is 5.06 Comment.)

It's a cluster, but the right call was made.

[recoachtn]

Would there not be call for some sort of interference? In this case, the throwing error that allowed the second runner to score was in response to R2 heading back towards third. I can understand not removing the run from the board but is there no effect of his reentering the field of play while play is still active?

What would the call be if a player from the dugout entered the field of play?

FWIW, this play had absolutely no bearing on the outcome of the game. Just hate not knowing.

Thanks for the responses!

[Matt]

Originally Posted by recoachtn

Would there not be call for some sort of interference? In this case, the throwing error that allowed the second runner to score was in response to R2 heading back towards third. I can understand not removing the run from the board but is there no effect of his reentering the field of play while play is still active?

What would the call be if a player from the dugout entered the field of play?

FWIW, this play had absolutely no bearing on the outcome of the game. Just hate not knowing.

Thanks for the responses!

No interference, unless the reverse running was intentional (and it would have to be pretty obvious to make that determination.) Offensive personnel on the field of play have differing burdens of responsibility to avoid interfering, and a scored runner generally has to intentionally interfere for it to be illegal.

A player out of the dugout, OTOH, would be interference, because he is not authorized to be on the field of play.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by recoachtn

Runners on first and second. Batter gets basehit to right field. Runners advance. Throwing error has lead runner heading to home and middle runner heading to third. Lead runner touches home but, due to confusion of coaches/parents yelling "back, back" (meant for middle runner now rounding third), lead runner heads back to third base. Middle runner heads home and passes lead runner now heading back to third. Fielding team tags both runners.

Originally Posted by recoachtn

Would there not be call for some sort of interference? In this case, the throwing error that allowed the second runner to score was in response to R2 heading back towards third. I can understand not removing the run from the board but is there no effect of his reentering the field of play while play is still active?

Okay, either something's wrong here, or I just haven't had enough coffee this morning. At first you said there was a throwing error that allowed R2 to head to home. Then you said the throwing error happened as R2 was running back towards third. Which was it?

Also, you never answered a pertinent question here, and that was: When/where was R1 tagged? Did it happen before he reached home, or afterward?

I'm having trouble understanding why the umpires allowed both runs to score. For sure, R2's run counts as others have said. But I'm not sure why R1 would be allowed to score as well unless the tag happened after he touched home.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by recoachtn

...........lead runner heads back to third base. Middle runner heads home and passes lead runner now heading back to third. Fielding team tags both runners.

Ruling - Both runners are safe and runs count.

.

This is where I'm a little confused. It reads like the lead runner is at or near third, and the trailing runner is at or near the plate. How did the defense tag them both?


Tim.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by recoachtn

I have a little league (seniors) baserunning rules question.

Runners on first and second. Batter gets basehit to right field. Runners advance. Throwing error has lead runner heading to home and middle runner heading to third. Lead runner touches home but, due to confusion of coaches/parents yelling "back, back" (meant for middle runner now rounding third), lead runner heads back to third base. Middle runner heads home and passes lead runner now heading back to third. Fielding team tags both runners.

Ruling - Both runners are safe and runs count.

Question: Shouldn't one of the runners be out either because the middle runner has now passed the lead runner or for play interference by inappropriately reentering the field of play?

Nobody at the game has ever seen this happen after the lead runner has crossed home plate. Neither umpire seemed sure of the correct ruling or rule.

If anybody can tell me what the correct ruling should have been and, if possible, the rule that governs, I would greatly appreciate it.

Let me see if I have this right:

• Lead runner touches home plate - the run scores, end of story.
• Following runner rounding 3rd heading home while runner who just scored heads back to 3rd.
• Trailing runner heading home passes his teammate who just scored - his teammate is not a runner anymore.
• Trailing runner touches the plate - score run #2

A little messy there, coach but a simple play nonetheless. Once the lead runner touched the plate he is no longer a runner. The trailing runner passed a teammate, not a runner so there is no penalty. Maybe the players should listen to their coaches and not the crowd and maybe the 3rd base coach should have been sending the lead runner back to home but that's a coaching problem. The umpire made the right call. Score 2, no penalty.

[Manny A]

Just to add, OBR (from which LL rules are derived practically verbatim) says the following under rule 7.09(e):

"[A runner commits interference when] Any batter or runner who has just been put out, or any runner who has just scored, hinders or impedes any following play being made on a runner. Such runner shall be declared out for the interference of his teammate;
Rule 7.09(e) Comment: If the batter or a runner continues to advance after he has been put out, he shall not by that act alone be considered as confusing, hindering or impeding the fielders."

So, just because R2 continued to run after scoring here, that, in and of itself, is not interference, per the Comment. He had to have hindered the defense while they made a play on R1 or the BR, which is not what it sounds like happened here. The defense should know that once R2 scores, he is no longer a runner, and they should ignore him.

It's no different than when a batter takes off for first base on an uncaught third strike, but he can't run there since first is occupied with less than two outs. If the catcher makes a play on him, and that allows another runner to advance, shame on the catcher.

[recoachtn]

Sorry for the confusion.

Throwing error to third base allowed the first runner to score. Ball was thrown home in attempt to get that runner out. Catcher then threw ball back to third when same runner headed back towards third. Second runner now standing on third. Catcher threw wide to avoid retreating runner, third baseman did not see ball coming back with one runner on bag and another coming towards him. Wide throw ends up in shallow left allowing runner two to score, passing runner one now heading back to third.

[bob jenkins]

Then, as has been mentioned, both runs score.

[RPatrino]

You have to take the action in sequential steps, as Ozzie delineated. Sometimes you have to ignore things that have no bearing on the play, in order to make the proper rulings.

[Gulf Coast Blue]

Dmc......