Baserunning rules question

Spence · #1 (**permalink**) Thu Apr 28, 2005, 10:14pm

R1, R3.

In order to cause confusion, R1 takes off into the RF area . The hope is that the defense will be confused and somehow allow R3 to score.

Someone told me that a HS coach did this in a game last week.

I can't see anything in OBR that would make it illegal.

Anything?

largeone59 · #2 (**permalink**) Thu Apr 28, 2005, 11:10pm

Nope, perfectly legal. This is called "skunk in the outfield."

DG · #3 (**permalink**) Thu Apr 28, 2005, 11:53pm

Heard about it, but never seen it. It don't sound very smart to me.

Spence · #4 (**permalink**) Fri Apr 29, 2005, 09:05am

What if I changed the scenario a bit.

R1 takes off from first and heads out towards RF. F1 steps off the mound and throws to 2nd. Could you say he is out for being out of baseline and is attempting to avoid being tagged?

ozzy6900 · #5 (**permalink**) Fri Apr 29, 2005, 09:34am

Quote:

Originally posted by Spence
What if I changed the scenario a bit.

R1 takes off from first and heads out towards RF. F1 steps off the mound and throws to 2nd. Could you say he is out for being out of baseline and is attempting to avoid being tagged?

No, R1 is not avoiding a tag if F1 throws to 2nd. A runner avoids a tag when there is a tag attempted on him.

R1 is not doing anything wrong here. Simply put, he can run all the way to the outfield fence, turn and run to 2nd base and if no one tags him, he is safe. Now if F4 is waiting on the outfield grass as R1 is headng to 2nd and R1 deviates more than the preverbial 3 feet as F4 is trying to tag R1, then R1 has violated the rules and can be called out.

aevans410 · #6 (**permalink**) Fri Apr 29, 2005, 09:38am

He can't be called out for being out of baseline unless the ball is being held in the baseline and a tag being attempted. Actually, once the defense starts to attempt a play, the baseline is then established between the point the runner is at (even if hes in right field) and the next base hes attempting to reach. The "baseline" doesn't necessarily have to be between 2 bases.

Edit : Ozzy beat me to it .

ozzy6900 · #7 (**permalink**) Fri Apr 29, 2005, 09:44am

Quote:

Originally posted by aevans410
He can't be called out for being out of baseline unless the ball is being held in the baseline and a tag being attempted. Actually, once the defense starts to attempt a play, the baseline is then established between the point the runner is at (even if hes in right field) and the next base hes attempting to reach. The "baseline" doesn't necessarily have to be between 2 bases.

Edit : Ozzy beat me to it .

Mavis Beacon Speed Typing 101

mcrowder · #8 (**permalink**) Fri Apr 29, 2005, 10:16am

As a coach, this is an easy fix... wait until he's far, far away, watch the runner at 3rd, and then simply get on the mound and pitch. This bozo is likely to end up an out.

His High Holiness · #9 (**permalink**) Fri Apr 29, 2005, 10:18am

All;

Good umpires do not allow s$$$ like this in their ballgames. Yes it is legal but:

1. You will never see it on television.

2. Because you will never see it on televsion, you, the umpire will be blamed for the things that go wrong when this play is attempted. The other coach will be in your face. In evaluations or umpires, s$$$houses in games count against an umpire.

3. Big dogs like me will watch the circus that occurs and hold you, the umpire, accountable for the circus. When I see weird stuff like this in ballgames, I blame the umpire more than the coach. How the umpire responds has a lot to do with whether or not I recommend him for promotion.

4. There are a lot of things that the umpire can do to stop such nonsense. Because it never occurs on television, the umpire's reactions in shutting down this play cannot be evaluated against a standard. The lack of a standard gives the umpire wide latitude in dealing with this. Take it from a big dog. End this before it starts.

Calling out the runner for being out of the baseline is not the right way to go. I guarantee, however, that this play would never get off the ground in a game that I was doing. And if I saw it work in one of your games that I was watching, I would mark you down as not ready for the big time. The next time that you are tempted to allow something like this, remember that a big dog who controls your future may be watching.

Peter

aevans410 · #10 (**permalink**) Fri Apr 29, 2005, 10:19am

Quote:

Originally posted by mcrowder
As a coach, this is an easy fix... wait until he's far, far away, watch the runner at 3rd, and then simply get on the mound and pitch. This bozo is likely to end up an out.

Which is why I'm amazed that this play is still successful at times (few and far between of course). It would be an awful easy force out at 2nd.

aevans410 · #11 (**permalink**) Fri Apr 29, 2005, 10:29am

Im not arguing with you HHH, I'm just trying to see where you are coming from. The fact of the matter is, I have heard of the play once, it was successful. You may get a s***house from the defensive coach for not doing anything, but what about the s***house your going to get from the offensive coach for taking a play away from him? Under what rule can we kill the play? Could a "travesty of the game" penalty be invoked here? I really believe this is a lose/lose situation, but do we save the defense if they're actually ignorant enough to pursue this play?

Spence · #12 (**permalink**) Fri Apr 29, 2005, 10:50am

Quote:

Originally posted by His High Holiness
All;

Calling out the runner for being out of the baseline is not the right way to go. I guarantee, however, that this play would never get off the ground in a game that I was doing.

What would your ruling be based on? That's what I'm looking for. I don't like the play but if I was the umpire, I would need an actual rule in order to invoke, right?

fwump · #13 (**permalink**) Fri Apr 29, 2005, 10:55am

Now what would I do here if I were on TV? Now that's not a thought that crosses my mind when I'm doing a 10u game.

Mike

Spence · #14 (**permalink**) Fri Apr 29, 2005, 10:56am

Quote:

Originally posted by aevans410
He can't be called out for being out of baseline unless the ball is being held in the baseline and a tag being attempted. Actually, once the defense starts to attempt a play, the baseline is then established between the point the runner is at (even if hes in right field) and the next base hes attempting to reach. The "baseline" doesn't necessarily have to be between 2 bases.

Edit : Ozzy beat me to it .

OBR 7.08 a(1) says :

a runner is out when he runs more than 3 feet away from a direct line between the bases to avoid being tagged...

That would seem to go against your interpretation of where the baseline is established. That wording would seem to indicate that as soon as F4 went to RF to tag the runner that he would be out as soon as he tries to avoid the tag by F4 since he's more than 3 feet away from the direct line between the bases.

I'm not an umpire . I'm just trying to find backing for your interpretation.

ozzy6900 · #15 (**permalink**) Fri Apr 29, 2005, 10:57am

Quote:

Originally posted by His High Holiness
All;

Good umpires do not allow s$$$ like this in their ballgames.....
Peter

Peter, I do not like the play either but I would like you to tell us all how you would stop this play and by what rules you will do this! The only way that I can see that an umpire can stop this play is to make up rules as he goes along!