Strange pitching motion: balk or no?

[Toth]

In Cal Ripen legal pitch. Babe Ruth and up, balk.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by Toth

In Cal Ripen legal pitch. Babe Ruth and up, balk.

Doesn't Cal Ripken have the modified diamond 70/50 and allow lead offs for certain ages now?

Tim.

[umpjim]

OBR at the MLB level allows Cliff Lee to do this:

Cliff Lee Delivers A Pitch - YouTube

In fact their is no restriction in OBR on free foot placement in the windup. I don't know if the youth leagues that use OBR have the same wording. In any case they will have to stop doing it to pitch in HS and College.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by umpjim

OBR at the MLB level allows Cliff Lee to do this:

Cliff Lee Delivers A Pitch - YouTube

In fact their is no restriction in OBR on free foot placement in the windup. I don't know if the youth leagues that use OBR have the same wording. In any case they will have to stop doing it to pitch in HS and College.

I'm pretty sure the discussion here was about doing this from the stretch, Jim.

Tim.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

I'm pretty sure the discussion here was about doing this from the stretch, Jim.

Tim.

Cliff Lee's foot position is the same when he stretches or winds up. JP Howell is another example. You can tell whether they will wind up or stretch from other cues however.
Edited to add: I see what you are saying. The step back and stretch to a stop should preclude any further windup motion. I would agree. I don't think Lee or Howell do it that way.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by umpjim

Cliff Lee's foot position is the same when he stretches or winds up. JP Howell is another example. You can tell whether they will wind up or stretch from other cues however.

And under OBR, the foot position doesn't matter. Under NCAA and FED it does (or is supposed to).

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by umpjim

Cliff Lee's foot position is the same when he stretches or winds up. JP Howell is another example. You can tell whether they will wind up or stretch from other cues however.
Edited to add: I see what you are saying. The step back and stretch to a stop should preclude any further windup motion. I would agree. I don't think Lee or Howell do it that way.

This is a decent video showing how Lee delivers the ball to the plate with and without runners. You'll see the difference.

Cliff Lee 2011 Highlights - YouTube


Tim.

[jTheUmp]

Thanks, umpjim... it looked exactly like Cliff Lee's motion in the video below (only this kid was right-handed).

So I should've balked him then... (this league is based on FED rules with modifications: no pitcher's mound, 75' bases, 56' pitcher's plate distance, etc)...

I didn't, for 2 reasons:
1) wasn't sure if it was a balk or not.. had never seen it before and didn't want to tell a kid he couldn't do something that he was actually allowed to do.
2) The other team was having a field day stealing bases on him because of his motion. I figured, if this pitcher is ok with allowing 2 stolen bases for every runner, who am I to argue?

[BSUmp16]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

Thanks, umpjim... it looked exactly like Cliff Lee's motion in the video below (only this kid was right-handed).

So I should've balked him then... (this league is based on FED rules with modifications: no pitcher's mound, 75' bases, 56' pitcher's plate distance, etc)...

I didn't, for 2 reasons:
1) wasn't sure if it was a balk or not.. had never seen it before and didn't want to tell a kid he couldn't do something that he was actually allowed to do.
2) The other team was having a field day stealing bases on him because of his motion. I figured, if this pitcher is ok with allowing 2 stolen bases for every runner, who am I to argue?

In Fed, this is a balk - the "hybrid stance" which was a PoE this year

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by BSUmp16

In Fed, this is a balk - the "hybrid stance" which was a PoE this year

This doesn't sound like the hybrid stance to me. It sounds like the pitcher came set with his feet aligned toward home, not opened up (left foot in the direction of the 45-foot point of the first base line) which is what I thought the hybrid stance entailed. But then he lifted his free foot, planted it behind him towards first, and then lifted it again to stride home.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Manny A

This doesn't sound like the hybrid stance to me. It sounds like the pitcher came set with his feet aligned toward home, not opened up (left foot in the direction of the 45-foot point of the first base line) which is what I thought the hybrid stance entailed. But then he lifted his free foot, planted it behind him towards first, and then lifted it again to stride home.

The hybrid stance is (a) pivot foot "across" the rubber as if in the windup, AND (b) free foot in front of (a line through the front edge of) the rubber as if in the set.

It has nothing to do with the angle of the free foot. Maybe we're just describing the same thing in different ways.