Courtesy Runner Etiquette

[bluehair]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

And then when you sweat and iut rubs off? When it is hot and I sweat, it doesn't work. I can't even write on a wet hand. OR when it gets on your uniform? Never had that happen.

And, how will you know if the CR has alredy participated in the game if you don't have it on the lineup card? Good point. I do look at lineup cards in between innings a few times during games.

I don't see how what you are doing is any better than writing it on the lineup card (and if you don't get lineups then at least take a piece of paper with you). The OP had to do with watching for the same CR being used for both F1 and F2. My writing on hand method is not any better than writing on a linecard, just a quicker method to check it. YMMV.

...

[Manny A]

Yeah, YMMV. But I'm not writing anything on the back of my hands when I umpire. To me, that just doesn't look very professional.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by bluehair

...

BlueHair:

I think you are missing the point that Rich, Bob, and I are trying to tell you. There is only one correct way to keep track of the CRs, and that is to use your Lineup Card. To do it any other way is not correct and the way that you have described can only be described as lazy and unprofessional.

MTD, Sr.

[bluehair]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

There is only one correct way to...

That reminds me of what my old boss once told me, "There is the right way, a wrong way, and my way to do things". So glad I have my own business and don't have to listen to one way Joes anymore.

So each and every time you have a CR come into the game, you pull out your lineup card, go through all of the players/numbers and write/verify that the CR is not an illegal sub and is running for the proper battery member. Internet umpires are so funny. I'll be willing to bet dollars to donuts (I know it's even money these days) that their virtuous/virtual practices and ballfield practices are not necessarily the same.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by bluehair

That reminds me of what my old boss once told me, "There is the right way, a wrong way, and my way to do things". So glad I have my own business and don't have to listen to one way Joes anymore.

So each and every time you have a CR come into the game, you pull out your lineup card and write/verify that he is not an illegal sub and is running for the proper battery member. Internet umpires are so funny. I'll be willing to bet dollars to donuts (I know it's even money these days) that their virtuous/virtual practices and ballfield practices are not necessarily the same.

BlueHair:

Everybody on the Forums know that my primary sport is basketball and my secondary sport is baseball (with fast pitch softball a distant third). And if you go to the Basketball Forum and as them to read your response (see above) they will tell you that I am going to take you to the woodshed for a good old fashion whopping.

Listen up whippersnapper. I have been a boys' and girls' H.S. basketball official for 42 years; I officiated women's college basketball for 34 years (from jr. college to Division I) and men's jr. college basketball for fifteen years. I am a basketball rules interpreter, instructional chairman, and a staffer at basketball officiating camps. When I hear a camper respond the way you just did, you know what I do or any other staffer would do: We drop you from our minds. We don't care whether you sink or swim because your actions tell us that you don't want to learn and get better.

I do not want to hear your horse manure about "one way Joes". I just hope II not your BU when you screw the pooch with regard to a CR because you have not done your job and taken business with the Lineup Card as the PU.

And yes, when I am the PU I pull out my Lineup Card and take care of business each every time (baseball and fast pitch softball) a CR enters the game. Actually that is a lie. When I am umpiring, 90% of the time our assigners pair Mark, Jr., and I together and 99% he takes the Plate for his "old man" and yes he takes care of business each every time (baseball and fast pitch softball) a CR enters the game.

MTD, Sr.

[bluehair]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Listen up whippersnapper. I have been a boys' and girls' H.S. basketball official for 42 years;

...And yes, when I am the PU I pull out my Lineup Card and take care of business each every time (baseball and fast pitch softball) a CR enters the game. Actually that is a lie. When I am umpiring, 90% of the time our assigners pair Mark, Jr., and I together and 99% he takes the Plate for his "old man" and yes he takes care of business each every time (baseball and fast pitch softball) a CR enters the game.

MTD, Sr.

Congrats on your 42 yrs of officiating...
...but you now rely on your partner to get things covered. And though I also get things covered (without using my partners as a crutch), I am the lazy and unprofessional one (now add unwilling to learn to your rash list of my shortcomings)...huh, I guess age does have its perks.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bluehair

That reminds me of what my old boss once told me, "There is the right way, a wrong way, and my way to do things". So glad I have my own business and don't have to listen to one way Joes anymore.

So each and every time you have a CR come into the game, you pull out your lineup card, go through all of the players/numbers and write/verify that the CR is not an illegal sub and is running for the proper battery member. Internet umpires are so funny. I'll be willing to bet dollars to donuts (I know it's even money these days) that their virtuous/virtual practices and ballfield practices are not necessarily the same.

The first time a NEW CR comes into the game, yes, I do that. takes <10 seconds. If the same CR comes into the game again, I just note it on the card. Takes <3 seconds. If the CR enters in another capacity, I note in in the lineup section, AND make a note of it in the CR section (I put an X through his number there). So, if he again tries to come in as a CR, I can stop it. Takes <5 seconds.

I do that at least as often as you indicate you write on your hand.

[johnnyg08]

Think of it this way, if an issue arises, you're going to spend far more time staring at your hand and also the lineup card...had you taken care of business right away, at least you just have to look at your lineup card. Looking at your hand and comparing it to your lineup card is going to look pretty dumb.

[bluehair]

Line-up cards don't have a CR tracking section on them. Cards vary with every school. This past week I was handed a varsity line-up with subs on a 2x3 inch piece of paper the other team a 8.5x11 sheet. Sometimes there is room on the front to track CRs other times you have to keep it on the back. So you have to adapt how you keep track with each format you are given...no big deal. You guys seem to have a CR tracking system that works for you. Good.

But If my system accomplishes the same thing (and after ten years of development, I assure you, it does), then claiming your system is superior is just hubris.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by bluehair

Line-up cards don't have a CR tracking section on them. Cards vary with every school. This past week I was handed a varsity line-up with subs on a 2x3 inch piece of paper the other team a 8.5x11 sheet. Sometimes there is room on the front to track CRs other times you have to keep it on the back. So you have to adapt how you keep track with each format you are given...no big deal. You guys seem to have a CR tracking system that works for you. Good.

But If my system accomplishes the same thing (and after ten years of development, I assure you, it does), then claiming your system is superior is just hubris.

I don't recall anyone saying that one system is superior over another. What I and others felt was that having writing on one's hand with a felt-tip marker just doesn't look right. Umpires are supposed to look impeccable when they get to the field, and do their best to stay that way. To me, having felt-tip ink on my hands is as much of an eyesore as an untucked shirt or dirt on my pants.

You said you don't do this when it's raining or the potential for profuse sweating is great. So what do you do then?

There are plenty of things we have to keep track of above and beyond substitutions and CR entries. There are conferences taken, warnings issued, bench restrictions and ejections given, etc. Where do you annotate those?

If your system works for you, fine. I just wouldn't recommend it for any of my umpiring colleagues.

BTW, if a coach handed my a 2x3 inch piece of paper, I'd give it back to him/her and tell him/her to give me a proper lineup card.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bluehair

But If my system accomplishes the same thing (and after ten years of development, I assure you, it does), then claiming your system is superior is just hubris.

Point of fact - the only person calling one better than the other (at least so far) is you.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by bluehair

So each and every time you have a CR come into the game, you pull out your lineup card, go through all of the players/numbers and write/verify that the CR is not an illegal sub and is running for the proper battery member.

Yep. It's really easy, too, if you use the card that comes in the Honig's lineup card wallet. Pull out the wallet, check the lineup to see if the existing runner is F1 or F2, check the lineup to see if the CR has been in the game already, check the card to see if he was CR for the other position. Takes about as long as it does for the CR to realize he's going out there.

Also, I run a business. It got so much easier when I started listening to other people who had been in the same boat...just because I'm in charge doesn't mean I know everything.

[bluehair]

Thanks for all the advice. I'll give it all the consideration it deserves.

Time to move along, brudas.

[Steven Tyler]

I work with partners who as BU will keep track of it for me. Speed the game up you know. I usually can remember in my head anyway. I can remember who the catcher and pitcher are. I don't recall doing it, but I would ask the coach who he is sending in, and why to make certain what we got going on. New CR or PR.