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That said, although both you and that other poster make a passionate case for getting it "right" regardless of how you would look, you need to re-examine the DUAL responsibilities of officials under 9.01(a). No-one is advocating NEVER seeking help. The advice has been to do that BEFORE making a decision, wherever possible. Only get help on a judgement call AFTER making a decision if it was a call that may reasonably be corrected given the following game action, and PROVIDED you have not first been approached by a participant in breach of 9.02(a). Game management is not just a matter of umpire dignity, but try managing a game without it! Despite protestations to the contrary, even that other poster's much beloved and now superceded General Instructions to Umpires urged officials NOT to get help excessively, but instead to GET YOUR OWN CALLS. Just thought you'd like to know. Cheers [Edited by Warren Willson on Jul 22nd, 2003 at 05:07 PM]
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No-one is advocating NEVER seeking help.
Most everyone in their own way and style seems to agree that no one is advocating NEVER seeking help and also no one is advocating ALWAYS seeking help. The point of contention appears to be where the emphasis should be. It has to be somewhere. For me. the emphasis is on training and performance. That is the hope we have to reduce the number of times that getting help is requested and more importantly, it will reduce the number of times that an umpire may feel that getting help is needed. Some others appear, to me, by simple word count, repetition and other tactics, to be putting the emphasis on the justification of getting help. This, in my opinion, is similar to the modern public educational ploy of trying to get students to have "positive self-esteem" prior to having done anything that would create the opportunity of positive self-esteem. Sort of like, "Yes, Johnny, you only got 2 out of 20 correct, but the important part is you feel good about yourself. Think how much better Johnny would feel if he had learned well enough (or benn taught well enough) to get 20 out of 20 correct. I have no argument that there may well be a time an umpire feels the need to get help. No need to spend bandwidth justifying that. I believe it would lead to better umpiring if we spent our energy and time on learning our craft so that those occasions are drastically reduced.
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Warren....why do you keep insisting that we're dealing with "judgement" on this 5-page post? I repeat an earlier post that the judgement part of this call is made by ruling out/safe. Judgement is the criteria in all out/safe calls. The pulled foot is simply a frequent occurance that often requires the help of the plate umpire to confirm or deny such an occurance. It's usually noticed by the first base coach and he's generally the one to request you ask for help. Why make this such a tough situation?
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I can't quite grasp Garth's latest point, as he seems to want it both ways. But it seems plausible to reconcile the opposing viewpoints with the following maxim: Get help if you must, but work to improve your game so you won't ordinarily need to. And since this maxim describes my own philosophy on the help issue, I paraphrase Pharoh's declaration to Moses: So let it be written, So let it be done!
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I can't quite grasp Garth's latest point...
Sure you do. Get help if you must, but work to improve your game so you won't ordinarily need to. See? I knew you did.
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Cheers [Edited by Warren Willson on Jul 23rd, 2003 at 12:26 AM]
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"Your opinion is worth as much as anyone else's with the same level of experience - and I don't know what that is so I'm not taking a shot by saying that."
Your absolutely right. As is yours. Opinions are like ????, well you know what I mean. As others have already pointed out, this discussion is applicable at ALL levels. The image portrayed by changing a call after a judgement and decision has been made is in you words, " That's BAD game management". Well it might be for you. However, I am confident enough at whatever level I work at to handle ANY further questions or situations that may arise as a result of changing my call. I am not afraid to say that, "I made a mistake." Even if, in your opinion, the rule book says that I can't. And when you think of it , that is what it comes down to. Doing, what each of us has to do, to get through are game. Have a good day. |
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Warren Willson
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I recall that last year I started a 7 page topic that had 100 replies. Garth stated that this was a record. I believe that I only had one post after the original one. The thread was a huge $hithouse by this forum's standards. However, no one ever mentioned anything about what people down under do with all those sheep ![]() Peter |
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Garth stated that this was a record
Peter: Before the ususal cast starts demanding proof, citations and other best evidence, allow me to interject that my statement was anecdotal. I believe it to be true since I had been here from almost the start-up of the site. And, who else is more deserving of the honor of instigating, I mean initiating what would become the longest thread than our revered HHH? ![]()
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105 messages versus 102. I looked. It was close and both reached seven pages.
Getting hit in the wallet was a fun story - even more so cause it was true and I have a witness! I had a BU partner get hit this season -- his was in a college game where the ball found him. He didn't help matters by trying to run out of the way of the ball. Instead he looked like a cartoon character whose "wheels" spin before he gets moving. He took it in the back of the heel. Oh, wait, I'm getting off topic. Wouldn't want that to be an excuse when we add 30 more replies and have the longest thread. Rich |
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The Bible says "Love thy neighbor as thyself." The underlying assumption in this Bible wisdom is that most people love themselves. A sign of mental stability is that one loves himself. Ah, there's the problem. Love of oneself would seem abnormal to the mentally unbalanced mind. Peter |
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That's my point - CHECK FIRST when required! That's Rich's point. That's also Garth's point. If he thinks about it, that may even be BFair's point. Only you want to defy the advice of the pro's and make a call when you're clearly blocked out THEN correct it later, as though that was some kind of honorable approach! Quote:
Have a nice day.
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Re: Warren is misinformed
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![]() As for what we do with sheep, we shear 'em, skin 'em, cook 'em and eat 'em! Want a demonstration? There's a few "sheep" around this board that I'd like to show that process to "first hand". ![]() BTW, please stop baiting Jim Porter with cracks about mental instability. With the notable exception of BFair, there has been very little personal abuse on this board since I returned. Most of us are perfectly happy to keep it that way. Cheers
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Warren Willson |
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