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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 03, 2012, 05:08pm
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David Rackley

On the appeal play in which he called Andres Torres out in the Mets @ Cardinals game today, he made two mistakes:
1) Torres touched the bag.
2) Rackley held his head over first base afterwards, basically implying to St. Louis that he missed the bag.

I think one instruction needs to be given to umpires here:
Runners are assumed to have touched the bag/plate unless it is extremely obvious that he didn't. After all, in all the major league games this year, how many runners miss the bag/plate, maybe five?

If this happened in a postseason game, as Al Michaels would say: 'There would be hell to pay.'
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Old Mon Sep 03, 2012, 05:30pm
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Baseball Video Highlights & Clips | NYM@STL: Torres called out for missing bag in ninth - Video | MLB.com: Multimedia
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Old Mon Sep 03, 2012, 05:55pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmagan View Post
I think one instruction needs to be given to umpires here:
Runners are assumed to have touched the bag/plate unless it is extremely obvious that he didn't. After all, in all the major league games this year, how many runners miss the bag/plate, maybe five?
Runners miss bases all the time. They usually aren't appealed because the umpires are the only ones who see it.

If you think you can do a better job, start your own umpiring school. Your instruction is absolutely wrong.
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Old Mon Sep 03, 2012, 07:46pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron View Post
Runners miss bases all the time. They usually aren't appealed because the umpires are the only ones who see it.

If you think you can do a better job, start your own umpiring school. Your instruction is absolutely wrong.
Think of it this way, if it is a fly ball down the right field line, the first base umpire has to go to the outfield, and who is responsible for seeing if the batter touched first base? The home plate umpire. Using those sets of circumstances, do you think the home plate umpire is calling Torres out? Never in a million years.
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Old Mon Sep 03, 2012, 07:52pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmagan View Post
Runners are assumed to have touched the bag/plate unless it is extremely obvious that he didn't.
"Extremely obvious" to whom. He was less than 10 feet away.
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Old Mon Sep 03, 2012, 07:54pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmagan View Post
Think of it this way, if it is a fly ball down the right field line, the first base umpire has to go to the outfield, and who is responsible for seeing if the batter touched first base? The home plate umpire. Using those sets of circumstances, do you think the home plate umpire is calling Torres out? Never in a million years.
You're not paying attention. I'm not talking about Torres, I'm talking about your ridiculous "instruction."
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Old Tue Sep 04, 2012, 08:26am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmagan View Post
Think of it this way, if it is a fly ball down the right field line, the first base umpire has to go to the outfield, and who is responsible for seeing if the batter touched first base? The home plate umpire. Using those sets of circumstances, do you think the home plate umpire is calling Torres out? Never in a million years.
Trolling? Or legitimately stupid? Not a tough call at all... in fact it's easier than U1 making it, as PU can get a better angle on the side of the bag the runner's going to touch.
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Old Tue Sep 04, 2012, 09:45am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron View Post
They usually aren't appealed because the umpires are the only ones who see it.

.
Probably true in youth and even HS ball. Not at all true in MLB
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Old Tue Sep 04, 2012, 01:51pm
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Originally Posted by Rich Ives View Post
Probably true in youth and even HS ball. Not at all true in MLB
It is true that missed bases, even in MLB, go unappealed. It is very true in HS that missed bases go unnoticed, and even in some levels of college baseball.
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Old Tue Sep 04, 2012, 03:13pm
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Originally Posted by zm1283 View Post
It is true that missed bases, even in MLB, go unappealed. It is very true in HS that missed bases go unnoticed, and even in some levels of college baseball.
zm said so on the internet ... and you can't put anything on the internet if it isn't true.

Sir, given that we have just about every camera angle covered on every single game every single day, don't you think that if someone missed a base we'd have it shown to us? I recall seeing exactly one highlight of this happening - several years ago. It just doesn't happen. At the speed these guys are going, most of them would wipe out if they tried to round a bag and missed the push off. Your assertion is absurd. If you have proof, please post it. Otherwise ... meh...
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Old Wed Sep 05, 2012, 01:33pm
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Originally Posted by mbcrowder View Post
zm said so on the internet ... and you can't put anything on the internet if it isn't true.

Sir, given that we have just about every camera angle covered on every single game every single day, don't you think that if someone missed a base we'd have it shown to us? I recall seeing exactly one highlight of this happening - several years ago. It just doesn't happen. At the speed these guys are going, most of them would wipe out if they tried to round a bag and missed the push off. Your assertion is absurd. If you have proof, please post it. Otherwise ... meh...
So if a team has the bases loaded and a double is hit in the gap in right center, there is going to be a camera that watches every runner touch every base in every game? I don't buy it.

Speed they're going? Some of them don't run any faster than D1 players, and D1 players miss bases too.

Your assertion that MLB players don't miss bases and they go unappealed is absurd.

By the way, why don't the guys who get called out on appeal (Like the Mets guy here) "wipe out"?
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Old Wed Sep 05, 2012, 01:42pm
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Originally Posted by zm1283 View Post
So if a team has the bases loaded and a double is hit in the gap in right center, there is going to be a camera that watches every runner touch every base in every game? I don't buy it.

Speed they're going? Some of them don't run any faster than D1 players, and D1 players miss bases too.

Your assertion that MLB players don't miss bases and they go unappealed is absurd.

By the way, why don't the guys who get called out on appeal (Like the Mets guy here) "wipe out"?
I'm sorry, you are right. There's no way a camera would ever catch this, as they only use one or two per game. My bad.
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Old Wed Sep 05, 2012, 03:17pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmagan View Post
2) Rackley held his head over first base afterwards, basically implying to St. Louis that he missed the bag.
I'm sorry, but I didn't see this. Rackley did look at the base as the runner reached it, as he is required to do. But when did he continue to hold it there?

The second camera angle in the video did show him looking down, but this was in slo-mo so it may appear to last a while when, in fact, it probably wasn't. You make it sound like he just stood there staring at the bag well after Torres passed it.

The fact that Torres didn't go bonkers at second base spoke volumes to me. If he did indeed feel that he touched the base, he would've likely charged after Rackley to state his case. He did, at the time, represent the game-tying run in the top of the ninth inning.

I also didn't see Tom Goodwin, the Mets first-base coach, going after Rackley either. And Terry Collins didn't seem too animated with his appeal. You gotta believe someone would've gotten tossed after that call if it was that bad.
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Old Thu Sep 06, 2012, 11:52am
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Originally Posted by mbcrowder View Post
I'm sorry, you are right. There's no way a camera would ever catch this, as they only use one or two per game. My bad.
That's weird, because I never said that a camera would never catch a runner missing a base. I said that even though there are multiple cameras at every game, there is the occasional missed base that doesn't get picked up on camera. Quit making things up.
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Old Thu Sep 06, 2012, 12:04pm
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Originally Posted by zm1283 View Post
That's weird, because I never said that a camera would never catch a runner missing a base. I said that even though there are multiple cameras at every game, there is the occasional missed base that doesn't get picked up on camera. Quit making things up.
I'm not - you're missing my point entirely.

My point is that IF this happens often, as you assert it does, then it would be caught on camera often - and we would see it shown on highlights often. You claim it happens all the time with no proof - if it does happen, there is proof out there - show us.
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