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3ump Mon Jul 23, 2012 03:02pm

Balk or Not
 
Teener league game....14/16 major league rules: Pitcher is intentionally walking batter, catcher steps out for pitch as pitcher releases ball......coach is calling for balk , by the third pitch he is screaming for balk. After fourth pitch he is ejected.

Please advise..........watching the majors, I have never seen any call on this and the catcher is alot farhter out than this guy was.

CT1 Mon Jul 23, 2012 04:42pm

By rule, F2 is required to be in his "box" until the time of the pitch -- which is the first movement that commits the pitcher to pitch. At that time, F2 can move.

DG Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3ump (Post 849704)
Teener league game....14/16 major league rules: Pitcher is intentionally walking batter, catcher steps out for pitch as pitcher releases ball......coach is calling for balk , by the third pitch he is screaming for balk. After fourth pitch he is ejected.

Please advise..........watching the majors, I have never seen any call on this and the catcher is alot farhter out than this guy was.

Coach is not wise. Don't let him argue same point for 4 pitches. One pitch, he gets explanation. Shouldn't happen again.

umpjim Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CT1 (Post 849718)
By rule, F2 is required to be in his "box" until the time of the pitch -- which is the first movement that commits the pitcher to pitch. At that time, F2 can move.

That is correct for FED not OBR. The commonly ignored rule states "until the ball leaves the pitcher's hand" for intentional walks only. TOP is actually used in practice in OBR when it rarely if ever is called.

waltjp Tue Jul 24, 2012 08:14am

Quote:

Originally Posted by DG (Post 849728)
Coach is not wise. Don't let him argue same point for 4 pitches. One pitch, he gets explanation. Shouldn't happen again.

Ball 1 - Ignore
Ball 2 - "He's fine. Enough."
Ball 3 - Bye bye
Ball 4 - Silence

CT1 Tue Jul 24, 2012 09:17am

Quote:

Originally Posted by waltjp (Post 849747)
Ball 1 - Ignore
Ball 2 - "He's fine. Enough."
Ball 3 - Bye bye
Ball 4 - Silence

This.

Manny A Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:57am

Quote:

Originally Posted by umpjim (Post 849729)
The commonly ignored rule states "until the ball leaves the pitcher's hand" for intentional walks only. TOP is actually used in practice in OBR when it rarely if ever is called.

Ahhh, Yes, another archaic OBR that has long outlived its usefulness.

OBR also at one time required the pitcher's pivot foot to be entirely within the 24" confines. But that was rarely enforced, and eventually the ruleswriters came to their senses and changed 8.01 to require only contact with the rubber. They need to do the same with 4.03(a).

3ump Tue Jul 24, 2012 07:54pm

balk or not
 
Well put Manny, I agree the rule is outdated because the catchers box is no where like it was years ago ( not to many). And when the Majors do it they do the same thing, stick out the glove and jump way outside BEFORE pitchers releases the ball.

But rule 4.03 does state "until the ball leaves his hand", so therein I believe my fellow ump was wrong????

Rich Ives Tue Jul 24, 2012 08:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3ump (Post 849840)
Well put Manny, I agree the rule is outdated because the catchers box is no where like it was years ago ( not to many). And when the Majors do it they do the same thing, stick out the glove and jump way outside BEFORE pitchers releases the ball.

But rule 4.03 does state "until the ball leaves his hand", so therein I believe my fellow ump was wrong????

Are you listening?

N O B O D Y calls that a balk.

BigUmp56 Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:26pm

I'd call it a balk.

But only on one of your pitchers, Rich.

And because Manny told me to do it...............


Tim.

Manny A Wed Jul 25, 2012 07:57am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigUmp56 (Post 849845)
I'd call it a balk.

But only on one of your pitchers, Rich.

And because Manny told me to do it...............

Troublemaker........:D

Manny A Wed Jul 25, 2012 07:58am

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3ump (Post 849840)
But rule 4.03 does state "until the ball leaves his hand", so therein I believe my fellow ump was wrong????

I'm not sure what you're getting at. Which "fellow ump" are you talking about? You said in your OP that the defensive coach was complaining and then got ejected. What did the umpire do (or fail to do) that was wrong with what is said in 4.03?

Rich Ives Wed Jul 25, 2012 08:56am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny A (Post 849854)
I'm not sure what you're getting at. Which "fellow ump" are you talking about? You said in your OP that the defensive coach was complaining and then got ejected. What did the umpire do (or fail to do) that was wrong with what is said in 4.03?

My interp was that it was because he didn't call a balk when 4.03 says it's a balk.

Manny A Wed Jul 25, 2012 09:20am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Ives (Post 849859)
My interp was that it was because he didn't call a balk when 4.03 says it's a balk.

From the OP: "Pitcher is intentionally walking batter, catcher steps out for pitch as pitcher releases ball......

Sounds like the umpire was properly applying 4.03 here, since he didn't call a balk and the coach was complaining. So I'm not sure why 3ump felt the umpire was wrong.

Rich Ives Wed Jul 25, 2012 09:47am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny A (Post 849864)
From the OP: "Pitcher is intentionally walking batter, catcher steps out for pitch as pitcher releases ball......

Sounds like the umpire was properly applying 4.03 here, since he didn't call a balk and the coach was complaining. So I'm not sure why 3ump felt the umpire was wrong.



3Ump seemed to be saying it was a balk because the catcher moved out before the ball was released - which is what the rule actually says, but his partner didn't call it. His partner went with the TOP convention - what else could 3Ump be thinking his partner was wrong about?.


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