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3ump Mon Jul 23, 2012 03:02pm

Balk or Not
 
Teener league game....14/16 major league rules: Pitcher is intentionally walking batter, catcher steps out for pitch as pitcher releases ball......coach is calling for balk , by the third pitch he is screaming for balk. After fourth pitch he is ejected.

Please advise..........watching the majors, I have never seen any call on this and the catcher is alot farhter out than this guy was.

CT1 Mon Jul 23, 2012 04:42pm

By rule, F2 is required to be in his "box" until the time of the pitch -- which is the first movement that commits the pitcher to pitch. At that time, F2 can move.

DG Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3ump (Post 849704)
Teener league game....14/16 major league rules: Pitcher is intentionally walking batter, catcher steps out for pitch as pitcher releases ball......coach is calling for balk , by the third pitch he is screaming for balk. After fourth pitch he is ejected.

Please advise..........watching the majors, I have never seen any call on this and the catcher is alot farhter out than this guy was.

Coach is not wise. Don't let him argue same point for 4 pitches. One pitch, he gets explanation. Shouldn't happen again.

umpjim Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CT1 (Post 849718)
By rule, F2 is required to be in his "box" until the time of the pitch -- which is the first movement that commits the pitcher to pitch. At that time, F2 can move.

That is correct for FED not OBR. The commonly ignored rule states "until the ball leaves the pitcher's hand" for intentional walks only. TOP is actually used in practice in OBR when it rarely if ever is called.

waltjp Tue Jul 24, 2012 08:14am

Quote:

Originally Posted by DG (Post 849728)
Coach is not wise. Don't let him argue same point for 4 pitches. One pitch, he gets explanation. Shouldn't happen again.

Ball 1 - Ignore
Ball 2 - "He's fine. Enough."
Ball 3 - Bye bye
Ball 4 - Silence

CT1 Tue Jul 24, 2012 09:17am

Quote:

Originally Posted by waltjp (Post 849747)
Ball 1 - Ignore
Ball 2 - "He's fine. Enough."
Ball 3 - Bye bye
Ball 4 - Silence

This.

Manny A Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:57am

Quote:

Originally Posted by umpjim (Post 849729)
The commonly ignored rule states "until the ball leaves the pitcher's hand" for intentional walks only. TOP is actually used in practice in OBR when it rarely if ever is called.

Ahhh, Yes, another archaic OBR that has long outlived its usefulness.

OBR also at one time required the pitcher's pivot foot to be entirely within the 24" confines. But that was rarely enforced, and eventually the ruleswriters came to their senses and changed 8.01 to require only contact with the rubber. They need to do the same with 4.03(a).

3ump Tue Jul 24, 2012 07:54pm

balk or not
 
Well put Manny, I agree the rule is outdated because the catchers box is no where like it was years ago ( not to many). And when the Majors do it they do the same thing, stick out the glove and jump way outside BEFORE pitchers releases the ball.

But rule 4.03 does state "until the ball leaves his hand", so therein I believe my fellow ump was wrong????

Rich Ives Tue Jul 24, 2012 08:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3ump (Post 849840)
Well put Manny, I agree the rule is outdated because the catchers box is no where like it was years ago ( not to many). And when the Majors do it they do the same thing, stick out the glove and jump way outside BEFORE pitchers releases the ball.

But rule 4.03 does state "until the ball leaves his hand", so therein I believe my fellow ump was wrong????

Are you listening?

N O B O D Y calls that a balk.

BigUmp56 Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:26pm

I'd call it a balk.

But only on one of your pitchers, Rich.

And because Manny told me to do it...............


Tim.

Manny A Wed Jul 25, 2012 07:57am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigUmp56 (Post 849845)
I'd call it a balk.

But only on one of your pitchers, Rich.

And because Manny told me to do it...............

Troublemaker........:D

Manny A Wed Jul 25, 2012 07:58am

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3ump (Post 849840)
But rule 4.03 does state "until the ball leaves his hand", so therein I believe my fellow ump was wrong????

I'm not sure what you're getting at. Which "fellow ump" are you talking about? You said in your OP that the defensive coach was complaining and then got ejected. What did the umpire do (or fail to do) that was wrong with what is said in 4.03?

Rich Ives Wed Jul 25, 2012 08:56am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny A (Post 849854)
I'm not sure what you're getting at. Which "fellow ump" are you talking about? You said in your OP that the defensive coach was complaining and then got ejected. What did the umpire do (or fail to do) that was wrong with what is said in 4.03?

My interp was that it was because he didn't call a balk when 4.03 says it's a balk.

Manny A Wed Jul 25, 2012 09:20am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Ives (Post 849859)
My interp was that it was because he didn't call a balk when 4.03 says it's a balk.

From the OP: "Pitcher is intentionally walking batter, catcher steps out for pitch as pitcher releases ball......

Sounds like the umpire was properly applying 4.03 here, since he didn't call a balk and the coach was complaining. So I'm not sure why 3ump felt the umpire was wrong.

Rich Ives Wed Jul 25, 2012 09:47am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny A (Post 849864)
From the OP: "Pitcher is intentionally walking batter, catcher steps out for pitch as pitcher releases ball......

Sounds like the umpire was properly applying 4.03 here, since he didn't call a balk and the coach was complaining. So I'm not sure why 3ump felt the umpire was wrong.



3Ump seemed to be saying it was a balk because the catcher moved out before the ball was released - which is what the rule actually says, but his partner didn't call it. His partner went with the TOP convention - what else could 3Ump be thinking his partner was wrong about?.

LMan Wed Jul 25, 2012 02:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigUmp56 (Post 849845)
I'd call it a balk.

But only on one of your pitchers, Rich.

And because Manny told me to do it...............


Tim.


Tim wins the Internet today.

Rich Ives Wed Jul 25, 2012 03:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigUmp56 (Post 849845)
I'd call it a balk.

But only on one of your pitchers, Rich.

And because Manny told me to do it...............


Tim.

Birdman's authority ends at the Pentagon door. :D

rbmartin Wed Jul 25, 2012 04:15pm

Situation: OBR. 1 out. Fast runner on 2nd. 1st base open. Coach tells catcher to call for intentional walk. Catcher sets up 10 feet up 3rd baseline to recieve pitch in order to prevent R2 from stealing 3rd.

Obviously, in a ridiculous case like this you may want to call a balk. Otherwise, let it go.

MD Longhorn Wed Jul 25, 2012 04:24pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbmartin (Post 849891)
Situation: OBR. 1 out. Fast runner on 2nd. 1st base open. Coach tells catcher to call for intentional walk. Catcher sets up 10 feet up 3rd baseline to recieve pitch in order to prevent R2 from stealing 3rd.

Obviously, in a ridiculous case like this you may want to call a balk. Otherwise, let it go.

No. I can't allow the pitcher to pitch until the catcher gets into the box. If the catcher is set up way over there, we don't have a pitch - we have infielders throwing the ball to each other.

Rich Ives Wed Jul 25, 2012 09:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbmartin (Post 849891)
Situation: OBR. 1 out. Fast runner on 2nd. 1st base open. Coach tells catcher to call for intentional walk. Catcher sets up 10 feet up 3rd baseline to recieve pitch in order to prevent R2 from stealing 3rd.

Obviously, in a ridiculous case like this you may want to call a balk. Otherwise, let it go.

He has to be in the box until the TOP.

rbmartin Thu Jul 26, 2012 05:53am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Ives (Post 849913)
He has to be in the box until the TOP.

Penalty?

MD Longhorn Thu Jul 26, 2012 08:10am

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbmartin (Post 849929)
Penalty?

No penalty - just no pitching.

To get this particular balk, catcher has to be in the box and pitcher ready to pitch, and THEN get out of the box entirely before the pitch (without the umpire seeing him getting up and out and wondering what was going on, and calling time). Very unlikely scenario. Would almost have to be intentional by the catcher.

Don't.

Call.

This.

Balk.



EVER.

3ump Thu Jul 26, 2012 03:37pm

My mistake guys....he was not my partner I was not umpiring in this game....merely meant that I to umpire so therefore he is my fellow ump.

Just trying to get some confusion out of the way here, because by rule" until ball leaves his hand " certainly is not enforced in majors......coach was ejected because of his violent explosion after ump explained why he was not calling it a balk......however I to was involved in this same scenario two years ago....I did not call the balk either. Mine came bottom of 7th score tied 3-3, runners on 2nd & 3rd....I be dam game was not going to end on that .

Rita C Thu Jul 26, 2012 09:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SafeOutReplay (Post 850011)
If you did then it would show your LL mentality. :D

That mentality can be found in association umpires as well.

It's not a matter of association. It's a matter of training.

Rita

BigUmp56 Fri Jul 27, 2012 02:47am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SafeOutReplay (Post 850011)
If you did then it would show your LL mentality. :D

Considering that I would only call it on a Rich Ives coached pitcher shows only how much I'd like to see the look on an old Internet friends face the moment I called it.

Nothing more, nothing less..............

And welcome back to the board. I heard they'd torn down your bridge and you lost Internet access whilst moving.

Tim.

Manny A Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:14am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Ives (Post 849883)
Birdman's authority ends at the Pentagon door. :D

I no longer have any authority. I retired June 1, so now I'm a lowly civilian. ;)

CT1 Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:04am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny A (Post 850084)
I no longer have any authority. I retired June 1, so now I'm a lowly civilian. ;)

Congratulations, and many thanks for your service!

Manny A Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:37pm

Thanx, all. 30 years in the Army is a long run, and for the most part quite rewarding. I just hope my second career as a contractor supporting "another" Federal Department is equally fun. So far, it's not too bad.

The worst part is trying to figure out what suit, shirt and tie to wear. It was too easy when it was a military uniform!

LMan Fri Jul 27, 2012 01:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny A (Post 850113)
Thanx, all. 30 years in the Army is a long run, and for the most part quite rewarding. I just hope my second career as a contractor supporting "another" Federal Department is equally fun. So far, it's not too bad.

The worst part is trying to figure out what suit, shirt and tie to wear. It was too easy when it was a military uniform!

I feel your pain..

BigUmp56 Fri Jul 27, 2012 07:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny A (Post 850113)
Thanx, all. 30 years in the Army is a long run, and for the most part quite rewarding. I just hope my second career as a contractor supporting "another" Federal Department is equally fun. So far, it's not too bad.

The worst part is trying to figure out what suit, shirt and tie to wear. It was too easy when it was a military uniform!

Congratulations on your retirement, Manny!

As an old "Internet" friend, please allow me to say thank you for your many years of service to our country. You have my utmost respect and admiration.

Tim.

Rita C Sat Jul 28, 2012 12:17pm

reported

Publius Sat Jul 28, 2012 12:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rita C (Post 850247)
reported

Tattletale.

Steven Tyler Sat Jul 28, 2012 12:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mookie (Post 850213)
Diet.

Try it. won't help getting the restraining order lifted but at least you'll get to see your dick without a fukken mirror.

FatFukk that you are. :rolleyes:

I guess they were right when they said true love never dies.......derranged much.

Rich Ives Sat Jul 28, 2012 03:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny A (Post 850084)
I no longer have any authority. I retired June 1, so now I'm a lowly civilian. ;)

Congrats - thanks for being there. Now us former US E4's are on equal footing I guess.

Rich Ives Sat Jul 28, 2012 03:26pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny A (Post 850113)
Thanx, all. 30 years in the Army is a long run, and for the most part quite rewarding. I just hope my second career as a contractor supporting "another" Federal Department is equally fun. So far, it's not too bad.

The worst part is trying to figure out what suit, shirt and tie to wear. It was too easy when it was a military uniform!

We had a former Navy O6 quite a few years back now. Took him awhile to get used to people saying "yeah sure" and other such insubordinate stuff when he was requesting something. :D


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