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Old Tue May 22, 2012, 12:48am
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To Be Mad Or Not To Be Mad?

Alright guys I am looking for everyone's opinion on something that happened to my partner and I over the weekend. We were working a travel ball tournament for an association for the first time and had games on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.

On Friday evening we had a game with a team that had some rather obnoxious coaches. I was the field umpire and my partner was on plate. The game was rather close and Team A eventually won by 1. Team B complained about every call that went against them and I eventually ended up warning for their actions. With a runner on 3rd and 2 outs Team A hits a ball deep into the hole at short stop. F6 makes a good backhand play and throws to F3 to try and get the batter runner who is safe by a good 2 feet. I signal safe and Team B dugout erupts. The assistant is mouthy and throws his hat onto the ground as he is complaining. This led me to grant a warning to the coaches. The game continued without incidence.

On Sunday this same team is playing in bracket play and we have their first game. Again I am the field umpire and my partner is on plate. Game starts off well until the third inning when they are in the field. Ball is hit to F3 who fields the ball and tosses to F1 who is running to cover. I am in C position as there was an R2. From my vantage point F1 never comes close to the bag and dances all around it so I signal safe. The dugout comes unglued and the next thing I know the manager is running out (my partner did grant time for him). He is adamant that his player touched the bag and began demanding that I appeal to the plate umpire. I did not really like his tone so I denied this request, stuck with my call, and told him the conversation was over and to return to the dugout. He does so but he and his coaches continue to mouth but never get out of line. 2 outs later the inning ends. After middle inning warm ups and as the bottom of the inning was getting ready to begin my partner calls time and begins to walk over to the offending teams dugout. I begin coming down the line to get an angle to see and hear. Apparently the manager continued mouthing about the call and my partner had heard enough. As he was talking with the manager I can hear one of the assistant coaches mouthing. He is complaining that we sucked on Friday and that we still sucked on Sunday. We cost them the game on Friday and we were probably going to cost them the current game. Then he states that I am a lazy official and was out of position and that if I hustled over to 1st I probably would have seen the player touch first. I had heard enough so I ejected this coach. The coach wanted to sit in the stands and did not want to leave. After some encouragement that if he did not his team could just forfeit, he left the field. The game continues with a few more issues but nothing major. This team won.

After returning to the locker rooms we are informed that this particular team has stated that they refuse to play their next scheduled game if we are umpiring. The site director says that as far as he is concerned they can just forfeit. The coach comes and begins a conversation with the site director outside. Upon the site director coming back inside he tells us that he has our backs and that they are acting ridiculous. About this time he gets a phone call from the tournament UIC who is at a different site in a different city who instructs him to switch us from that field onto the alternate field and to move those umpires onto our games. The site director tried to explain the situation to him and how he did not want to move us, but the UIC felt it would be best for us and the team if we just switched up the umpires. This was a semi-final game that was beginning and my partner and I were also scheduled for the championship. The UIC instructed the site coordinator if this particular team won their semi-final game to put the other umpires on the championship and that if they lost then to move us back to it. This team did end up losing their semi-final game. No incidences occurred as they had 10 runs scored on them in the first inning and the other umpires stated things were rather quiet the entire game as a result.

I felt kind of cheated in the deal as did my partner. The other umpires were kind of upset too as they felt as if we were getting a bum deal and that the UIC was not covering us but giving into the coaching staff. The site coordinator felt as if we were being wronged, but he answers to the state committee and this particular UIC is on it making him a boss. In contacting the UIC to place my complaints his response was that it was nothing against us but rather protecting us from a situation. His explanation was that by removing us from the game we then did not have to put up with this team.

What are everyone's thoughts?
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Old Tue May 22, 2012, 12:59am
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Screw the UIC. The tourney director should have told the UIC to hit the bricks instead. I probably would have left right then and there than let the UIC bully my partner and myself.
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Old Tue May 22, 2012, 01:06am
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The assistant is mouthy and throws his hat onto the ground as he is complaining. This led me to grant a warning to the coaches.

This is where you dump the ASSistant coach. Then, he would probably know by the next game not to screw with you or face the same outcome.

As he was talking with the manager I can hear one of the assistant coaches mouthing. He is complaining that we sucked on Friday and that we still sucked on Sunday. We cost them the game on Friday and we were probably going to cost them the current game. Then he states that I am a lazy official and was out of position and that if I hustled over to 1st I probably would have seen the player touch first. I had heard enough so I ejected this coach.

As soon as you heard the boldfaced type above, he should have been ejected (again, as he should have been run the previous game as well). Assistant coaches are to be seen and not heard, like small children.

As far as your UIC is concerned, you may want to check his wife's purse to see if his balls are in it. The better assignors will send you right back into the fire when a team threatens something like "we won't play if so-and-so is umpiring," or "you'll never work our games again," as if they have some kind of say-so in the matter. It always amazes me how much power coaches think they have over the umpires. Unfortunately, your "boss" is more concerned with not upsetting the status quo, which IMO is tragic. I always relished the opportunity to work the very next game with the mouthy coach who thought he called the shots, and my assignor was always more than happy to pencil me in.
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Old Tue May 22, 2012, 01:44am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve View Post
The assistant is mouthy and throws his hat onto the ground as he is complaining. This led me to grant a warning to the coaches.

This is where you dump the ASSistant coach. Then, he would probably know by the next game not to screw with you or face the same outcome.

As he was talking with the manager I can hear one of the assistant coaches mouthing. He is complaining that we sucked on Friday and that we still sucked on Sunday. We cost them the game on Friday and we were probably going to cost them the current game. Then he states that I am a lazy official and was out of position and that if I hustled over to 1st I probably would have seen the player touch first. I had heard enough so I ejected this coach.

As soon as you heard the boldfaced type above, he should have been ejected (again, as he should have been run the previous game as well). Assistant coaches are to be seen and not heard, like small children.

As far as your UIC is concerned, you may want to check his wife's purse to see if his balls are in it. The better assignors will send you right back into the fire when a team threatens something like "we won't play if so-and-so is umpiring," or "you'll never work our games again," as if they have some kind of say-so in the matter. It always amazes me how much power coaches think they have over the umpires. Unfortunately, your "boss" is more concerned with not upsetting the status quo, which IMO is tragic. I always relished the opportunity to work the very next game with the mouthy coach who thought he called the shots, and my assignor was always more than happy to pencil me in.
Perfect example of a combination of rabbit ears and the "my dick is bigger than your dick" school of umpiring.

Don't go "getting an angle" so you can pick up on comments from the mouthy coaches - you're looking for trouble. If the coach comes to you and starts the conversation with "You...", or something simiilar, sure, dump him. Otherwise, unless it's loud enough to be showing you up, laugh and walk away. Pissing and moaning in the dugout is part of the game. Coaches like this will generally end up ejecting themselves. No need to go looking for trouble. And "relishing" the opportunity to get back at a coach means that you are no long an unbiased and neutral arbiter - you now have an agenda and are looking for an excuse to eject. I wouldn't want you umpiring my game either.
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Old Tue May 22, 2012, 02:42am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BSUmp16 View Post
Perfect example of a combination of rabbit ears and the "my dick is bigger than your dick" school of umpiring.

Don't go "getting an angle" so you can pick up on comments from the mouthy coaches - you're looking for trouble. If the coach comes to you and starts the conversation with "You...", or something simiilar, sure, dump him. Otherwise, unless it's loud enough to be showing you up, laugh and walk away. Pissing and moaning in the dugout is part of the game. Coaches like this will generally end up ejecting themselves. No need to go looking for trouble. And "relishing" the opportunity to get back at a coach means that you are no long an unbiased and neutral arbiter - you now have an agenda and are looking for an excuse to eject. I wouldn't want you umpiring my game either.
I have no idea why you are quoting my post. I did not advocate going in to "get an angle" to pick up comments. I was mostly commenting on the actions of the assistant coach in the first game, where he first threw his hat and had a tantrum. That's where it should have been nipped in the bud. As far as the rabbit ears thing, he was already over there and overheard it, so at that point, if it's loud enough to be heard by everyone and is aimed at you, you eject the clown. They eject people from the dugout in the majors for talking crap, so what's the difference.

Also, where did you get the idea that I "relished" the idea of going back to the game to "get back at the coach?" I only want to show that his intimidation tactic didn't work, and that the assignor will put whoever he wants on the game. I have never gone into a game with a chip on my shoulder from a previous game. I always start fresh each game with a clean slate. You sure infer a lot and do a lot of assuming, I have noticed.
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Last edited by SanDiegoSteve; Tue May 22, 2012 at 02:44am.
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Old Tue May 22, 2012, 07:27am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BSUmp16 View Post
Perfect example of a combination of rabbit ears and the "my dick is bigger than your dick" school of umpiring.

Don't go "getting an angle" so you can pick up on comments from the mouthy coaches - you're looking for trouble. If the coach comes to you and starts the conversation with "You...", or something simiilar, sure, dump him. Otherwise, unless it's loud enough to be showing you up, laugh and walk away. Pissing and moaning in the dugout is part of the game. Coaches like this will generally end up ejecting themselves. No need to go looking for trouble. And "relishing" the opportunity to get back at a coach means that you are no long an unbiased and neutral arbiter - you now have an agenda and are looking for an excuse to eject. I wouldn't want you umpiring my game either.
You must have read something totally different than I did. I don't think that the OP poster was trying to have rabbit ears, I think he wanted to hear the conversation, in case he had to later submit a wriiten report about what was said to his partner.
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Old Tue May 22, 2012, 07:35am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BSUmp16 View Post
Perfect example of a combination of rabbit ears and the "my dick is bigger than your dick" school of umpiring.

Don't go "getting an angle" so you can pick up on comments from the mouthy coaches - you're looking for trouble. If the coach comes to you and starts the conversation with "You...", or something simiilar, sure, dump him. Otherwise, unless it's loud enough to be showing you up, laugh and walk away. Pissing and moaning in the dugout is part of the game. Coaches like this will generally end up ejecting themselves. No need to go looking for trouble. And "relishing" the opportunity to get back at a coach means that you are no long an unbiased and neutral arbiter - you now have an agenda and are looking for an excuse to eject. I wouldn't want you umpiring my game either.

I'm glad I'll never have you as my partner! Pissing and moaning is part of the game? I have been looking that up all morning, is that under playing terms?

If I was the PU, I would have dumped the *** coach for you. Steve hit the nail on the head. I would have dumped the *** coach in the first game.

What, you can say dick but not a$$
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Last edited by thumpferee; Tue May 22, 2012 at 07:37am. Reason: What..
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Old Tue May 22, 2012, 08:05am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BSUmp16 View Post
Perfect example of a combination of rabbit ears and the "my dick is bigger than your dick" school of umpiring.

Don't go "getting an angle" so you can pick up on comments from the mouthy coaches - you're looking for trouble. If the coach comes to you and starts the conversation with "You...", or something simiilar, sure, dump him. Otherwise, unless it's loud enough to be showing you up, laugh and walk away. Pissing and moaning in the dugout is part of the game. Coaches like this will generally end up ejecting themselves. No need to go looking for trouble. And "relishing" the opportunity to get back at a coach means that you are no long an unbiased and neutral arbiter - you now have an agenda and are looking for an excuse to eject. I wouldn't want you umpiring my game either.
This is idiotic from the first letter to the last.
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Old Tue May 22, 2012, 08:09am
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To the OP: That's bizarre. 90% of the time, both TD and UIC are going to back the umpire and not bow down to "We won't play if they umpire" tactics. However, the odd occurrence in my experience where someone wants to lick coaches' boots almost always comes from the TD's side, and not the UIC. What you experienced is completely backward. I've seen UIC-TD shouting matches where TD wants to appease teams and the UIC refuses (properly IMHO!). Never seen it the other way around though.

I'm pretty sure I'd never work for that UIC again.
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Old Tue May 22, 2012, 08:18am
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To the OP: That's bizarre. 90% of the time, both TD and UIC are going to back the umpire and not bow down to "We won't play if they umpire" tactics. However, the odd occurrence in my experience where someone wants to lick coaches' boots almost always comes from the TD's side, and not the UIC. What you experienced is completely backward. I've seen UIC-TD shouting matches where TD wants to appease teams and the UIC refuses (properly IMHO!). Never seen it the other way around though.

I'm pretty sure I'd never work for that UIC again.
My thoughts, too. Where in the world does an UIC have authority over a TD?
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Old Tue May 22, 2012, 08:34am
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My thoughts, too. Where in the world does an UIC have authority over a TD?
I guess that depends on who is doing the assigning for the game. I don't agree with the UIC not backing his umpires, and if I was this UIC I would be getting my butt to the field to assist my umpires.

As to the OP, you created your own misery here by letting the behavior get too far out of hand. I don't advocate 'rabbit ears' by any means, however, the minute that hat hit the ground he would have been gone. Once that was allowed, you lost control of your game. It has been my experience that the players and fans take their lead from the adults on the field, you are lucky your problem was only from them, it could have escalated to a much worse situation.

BSUmp, you surely fabricated a lot out of a post that wasn't there. Pissing and moaning from a bench might be part of your games but its certainly not part of mine. Ignored, that behavior always gets worse.
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Old Tue May 22, 2012, 08:41am
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I guess that depends on who is doing the assigning for the game. I don't agree with the UIC not backing his umpires, and if I was this UIC I would be getting my butt to the field to assist my umpires.
I've learned over the years that frequently a UIC is being paid for that role by the TD (or for HS/college a conference). I've had UICs tell me that they don't work for the umpires cause they don't want to risk derailing the gravy train.
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Old Tue May 22, 2012, 08:51am
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I've learned over the years that frequently a UIC is being paid for that role by the TD (or for HS/college a conference). I've had UICs tell me that they don't work for the umpires cause they don't want to risk derailing the gravy train.
I have learned over the years that a UIC who claims they don't work for the umpires is a putz.
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Old Tue May 22, 2012, 09:02am
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What, you can say dick but not a$$
Because there very few guys named A$$ Van Dyke.
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Old Tue May 22, 2012, 09:21am
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I have learned over the years that a UIC who claims they don't work for the umpires is a putz.
I'm not arguing that. I'm just saying that it's better to know which kind of UIC you have before push comes to shove. And at times, it's meant I simply say, "No thanks" when asked to work.

Locally there's a place that does weekend tournaments. Many umpires go there and work multiple games. They decided that this year they would only pay umpires 1/2 fee if there's a forfeited game between two other games that are actually played. That's a deal-breaker for me -- if they expect me to sit around for 2 hours to work the next game, I expect to get paid for my time whether it's spent umpiring or sitting in a chair (it's too far to drive home and back). The UIC refuses to get involved.

They didn't budge, and neither did I. I suppose others need the money more than I do.
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