Infield Fly Rule

[rbmartin]

This happened to me yesterday. FED Rules. Game 2 of a double header bottom of last inning with score tied (not that any of this matters).
I am HP. Bases loaded with 1 out. Potential winning run on 3rd. Before batter gets in box, I give infield fly signal to my partner and he acknowledges it back to me. Batter hits very high popup to right side. From my vantage point I am not sure it's going to be an easy catch and am not sure how deep it will travel (it was very windy) so I refrain from declaring an "Infield fly - batters out!" If my partner at the "C" position had declared it I wouldn't have argued with him but I chose not to and neither did he. Ball was caught grass in short right field by the 2nd baseman. After the play I have to admit it did end up looking like a pretty easy play. Anyway, no runners attempted to advance. No problem. The ball was deep enough that if the catch had not been made there would have been zero chance of a double play .
Now for some (unknown to me) reason the defensive coach starts yelling at me asking me why I hadn't called the batter out via the infield fly rule. I siad "it's a judgement call and I chose not to."
My question is, in deciding to declare an infield fly or not, should I consider the location of the ball and if there is a possibility of a double play or is my only consideration whether the ball "can be caught with ordinary effort"? Isn't the pourpose of the rule all about protecting the runner?
Anyway the shortstop booted the next play and home team won so life goes on.

[MD Longhorn]

Yes, sounds like this was an IFF.

Your sole criteria should be - can it be caught with ordinary effort by an Infielder (yes, field conditions, ability/age of players, etc should be part of that equation)

You mention the purpose of the rule... and you have that right, but by your description, if the fielder intentionally let the ball drop, wouldn't he have been able to complete a relatively easy double play?

[rbmartin]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

You mention the purpose of the rule... and you have that right, but by your description, if the fielder intentionally let the ball drop, wouldn't he have been able to complete a relatively easy double play?

To home and then to 3rd?
To 3rd and then to 2nd ?
No chance. ball was too deep.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by rbmartin

To home and then to 3rd?
To 3rd and then to 2nd ?
No chance. ball was too deep.

Either. If it was caught by an infielder, I doubt it was too deep (granted ... you were there and I was not). Especially when you consider that most likely the runners (at least those at 1st and 2nd) are relaxed and on the base. At the high school level (i.e. on the big diamond), a normal F4 should be able to throw to home or 3rd and have the fielder throw to 3rd or 2nd faster than a runner can go 90 feet, especially from a relaxed standing position. At least the assumption by the rulesmakers is that this is expected, hence the rule.

[rbmartin]

These were 8th graders playing on a 90' diamond. I doubt that they would try anything cute with the winning run on 3rd.
Anyway, I was there, it was my call and I'm sticking to it. I just want to learn from it for the future.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by rbmartin

These were 8th graders playing on a 90' diamond. I doubt that they would try anything cute with the winning run on 3rd.
Anyway, I was there, it was my call and I'm sticking to it. I just want to learn from it for the future.

You may be right, then, that DP was not possible. Luckily, however, we don't have to make that judgement call. ALL we need to worry about is "is the ball catchable by an infielder with ordinary effort". No need for us to get to the reason for the rule and see if it applies. We just need to call it.

Wasn't really disagreeing with your judgement - IFF is always judgement. However, in READING your judgement - by YOUR description of the play, it should have been IFF, and hopefully it will be next time.

(BTW - you say 'try anything cute' above... it's not necessary that the failure to catch the ball be intentional (i.e. trying something cute). If you had not called IFF, and for whatever reason the fielder failed to catch it, you could have had a huge mess on your hands. Suddenly you have 3 runners who have to run (and at 8th grade... who might not run immediately and/or whose coaches might tell them not to run - seeing what appears to be an infield fly) and are forced. Assumedly with the winning run on 3rd, that F4's going home with it. Now, you have a force there, while if you'd called IFF, it would not be a force - not calling it you've changed the play. (And who knows, coach may have sent this runner for the tag play at home when he saw the fly ball dropped ... now he's at an unintended disadvantage because IFF was not called - he can no longer take advantage of the drop, but rather is in more danger than he should be in.)

[jicecone]

Even in the grass of the outfield, if a fielder can park hisself under a ball to make a catch then it is an IIF. (even an outfielder). If the fielder has to be moving on the run then it was not ordinary effort.

Of course it is a HTBT experience.

Don't let the grass be you guide as much as the effort to make the catch.

[SanDiegoSteve]

The key in this situation is to watch the infielder and not the ball. If he can camp out under the ball, call IFF at the apex of the ball's flight. If he is still running, or backpeddling and shifting continuously with a windblown ball, it is likely not ordinary effort.

[pmac]

Isn't it amazing that the Defensive coach would bark about IFF? If they used their noggins, they'd realize they were presented with a potential DP.......

I absolutely agree with SDS about ordinary effort. If so, call it. The later, the better in my books.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by pmac

Isn't it amazing that the Defensive coach would bark about IFF? If they used their noggins, they'd realize they were presented with a potential DP.......

.

Not amazing at all at this level (8th grade). In a 8th grade game he'd want the automatic out so he'd get at least one out even if the ball was dropped. It would also probably greatly reduce the chance of a fire drill if the ball was dropped because the coaches would most likely freeze the runners as soon as they heard the call.

[thumpferee]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

The key in this situation is to watch the infielder and not the ball. If he can camp out under the ball, call IFF at the apex of the ball's flight. If he is still running, or backpeddling and shifting continuously with a windblown ball, it is likely not ordinary effort.

Had a game and wind gusts up to 40 mph. IIF situation. Ball is hit fairly high toward short right field. F4 goes back (I am watching him) and sets up in short RF. I declare IIF, F4 then takes 10 running steps toward 2B. Ball hits 6ft in front of him right near 2nd base.

So, even with the wind being a factor, I believe you put the offense at a disadvantage by not declaring it as mb has said.

Going back to the original question, I think it is a combination of both "ordinary effort" and "location". I agree with Steve as far as who to watch to help make a decision to "ordinary effort".

Location.

Sit.1. Bases loaded, high winds, high popup to F4 between 1st and 2nd but can't get set under it due to the wind. Runners in this situation are probably two steps off the bag. R3 may be little further off.

Sit.2. Same as 1 except, ball is hit to short right field and F4 is there but still can't judge it due to the wind. Runners now, or should be, a lot further off the bag, especially R3.

In 1, I definitely have an IIF. In 2, I'm letting that play out.

JMO

[BestUmp]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

The key in this situation is to watch the infielder and not the ball. If he can camp out under the ball, call IFF at the apex of the ball's flight. If he is still running, or backpeddling and shifting continuously with a windblown ball, it is likely not ordinary effort.

To be fair, Steven, due to the amazing and incredible beisbol we have encountered in SoCal, ordinary effort for a SoCal player is extraordinary effort for any other.

[CT1]

My "rule of thumb" is whether the fielder can get his feet set and be facing the infield, even if it's just as the ball is coming into his glove. IFF does not have to be called immediately.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by rbmartin

My question is, in deciding to declare an infield fly or not, should I consider the location of the ball and if there is a possibility of a double play or is my only consideration whether the ball "can be caught with ordinary effort"? Isn't the pourpose of the rule all about protecting the runner?
Anyway the shortstop booted the next play and home team won so life goes on.

Others have correctly told you that the question to ask is whether an infielder can catch the ball with ordinary effort. The likelihood of a team at a given level turning a double play is not relevant.

I will add that, if F4 is catching the ball, BU should initiate the IFF call. He's got the best angle on whether this will be ordinary effort for the middle infielders.

In general, whoever has fly ball responsibility should be initiating the IFF call, with partner echoing it. And note that, should nobody announce it, the rule is still in force and can be applied retroactively: the announcement is a courtesy to the players, and is not necessary to cause the BR to be out.

[BestUmp]

Originally Posted by mbyron

In general, whoever has fly ball responsibility should be initiating the IFF call, with partner echoing it. And note that, should nobody announce it, the rule is still in force and can be applied retroactively: the announcement is a courtesy to the players, and is not necessary to cause the BR to be out.

Ho Ho HO! I would well enjoy that nonverbal, post-IFF discussion.

Arbitrate, man, arbitrate, do not be shy of voice or action!