Twins at Tampa Bay

[tmagan]

On a pop-up to first base, Carlos Pena reaches into the stands to catch the ball. Former NBA player Matt Geiger (although that is irrelevant) interferes with him. The first base umpire correctly rules the ball out of play. Yet the usher escorts Geiger out even though the fan has as much right to the baseball as Pena. Some people just never learn.

[SanDiegoSteve]

You don't expect the usher to know the rule do you? Remember, these are the unwashed masses who still think the hands are part of the bat.

[tmagan]

If you pay $500 for the ticket, you do and rules are the rules at the end of the day.

[briancurtin]

Originally Posted by tmagan

The first base umpire correctly rules the ball out of play. Yet the usher escorts Geiger out even though the fan has as much right to the baseball as Pena. Some people just never learn.

The back of my Cubs tickets say the following...

Ticket holder is also subject to removal without compensation in management discretion or upon breach of Major League Baseball or Wrigley Field rules.

The fan has as much right to the ball until fan interference is called, then they get to flex their muscles.

[Steven Tyler]

Thank you, Steve Bartman.

[DG]

Under the rules it is not fan interference if player is reaching into the stands. But home teams expect fans to give the right of way with home team players, so he was likely escorted out as mgmt flexed. If it had been the opposing team player the fans would have cheered and the ushers silent.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by tmagan

If you pay $500 for the ticket, you do and rules are the rules at the end of the day.

If you pay $500 for one ticket, you should have your head examined.

[BSUmp16]

Originally Posted by DG

Under the rules it is not fan interference if player is reaching into the stands. But home teams expect fans to give the right of way with home team players, so he was likely escorted out as mgmt flexed. If it had been the opposing team player the fans would have cheered and the ushers silent.

Here's the Tropicana Field Rule that deals with the subject:

"2. Fan Interference: Major League Baseball rules require that fans not go onto the field, throw objects onto the field or interfere with balls still in play. Violation may result in ejection from Tropicana Field and prosecution."

and OBR:

Rule 2.00 INTERFERENCE (d) Spectator interference occurs when a spectator reaches out of the stands, or goes on the playing field and (1) touches a live ball or (2) touches a player and hinders an attempt to make a play on a live ball. On any interference the ball is dead.

My interpretation is that although there was no spectator interference, the Tropicana Field rule prohibits interfering with a ball "in play"; and the ball was "in play" until it touched the ground or "any object foreign to the natural ground" (i.e., the fan).

So if the fan interfered with the ability to catch the ball before it touched the fan, he's in violation of the Tropicana Field Rule. If the interference didn't occur until after the fan touched the ball, the fan wasn't in violation of the rule since the ball was then immediately dead and could no longer be "in play"

(Slow day at the office )

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by BSUmp16

Here's the Tropicana Field Rule that deals with the subject:

"2. Fan Interference: Major League Baseball rules require that fans not go onto the field, throw objects onto the field or interfere with balls still in play. Violation may result in ejection from Tropicana Field and prosecution."

and OBR:

Rule 2.00 INTERFERENCE (d) Spectator interference occurs when a spectator reaches out of the stands, or goes on the playing field and (1) touches a live ball or (2) touches a player and hinders an attempt to make a play on a live ball. On any interference the ball is dead.

My interpretation is that although there was no spectator interference, the Tropicana Field rule prohibits interfering with a ball "in play"; and the ball was "in play" until it touched the ground or "any object foreign to the natural ground" (i.e., the fan).

So if the fan interfered with the ability to catch the ball before it touched the fan, he's in violation of the Tropicana Field Rule. If the interference didn't occur until after the fan touched the ball, the fan wasn't in violation of the rule since the ball was then immediately dead and could no longer be "in play"

(Slow day at the office )

Nice try. Ground rules cannot conflict with the regular rules. 3.13.

[BSUmp16]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Nice try. Ground rules cannot conflict with the regular rules. 3.13.

It's not a ground rule - has nothing to do with a ground rule. It's a Tropicana Field Rule (all parks have them) that applies to when and under what circumstances a fan can be ejected from the park. It tries to blend OBR rules into the mix

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by BSUmp16

It's not a ground rule - has nothing to do with a ground rule. It's a Tropicana Field Rule (all parks have them) that applies to when and under what circumstances a fan can be ejected from the park. It tries to blend OBR rules into the mix

The playing field belongs to the players. The stands belong to the fans.

PERIOD!

No blending necessary.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Nice try. Ground rules cannot conflict with the regular rules. 3.13.

Are you trying to imply that the Trop can't choose when and when not to remove a fan? Or did you just misunderstand his post.

PS to all... Geiger was let back in about an inning later.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by BSUmp16

It's not a ground rule - has nothing to do with a ground rule. It's a Tropicana Field Rule (all parks have them) that applies to when and under what circumstances a fan can be ejected from the park. It tries to blend OBR rules into the mix

(and Mike)

So at the Trop you can eject a fan for not interfering because it's illegal there to not interfere?

The alternative is that they removed the fan because they decided it was interference even though the rules say it isn't. OH! Conflict with the playing rules? Just stupid? Bottom line they attempted to eject a fan for interfering when in fact he wasn't because the rules say he wasn't.

How about for wearing a chartruse and orange hat?

Remind to spend my money elsewhere if I'm in the area.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by DG

Under the rules it is not fan interference if player is reaching into the stands. But home teams expect fans to give the right of way with home team players, so he was likely escorted out as mgmt flexed. If it had been the opposing team player the fans would have cheered and the ushers silent.

I don't follow the logic here. The home team expects even fans of their opponents to give the right of way to the home team when it reaches into the fans' domain to attempt a play? If I am a Twins fan, I am going to try to knock the ball out the player's hand who is invading my space, as is my right as a fan. The player is trying to take my souvenir away, and he's going to have to fight me for it. Rays fans may wish to part the Red Sea for their players, that's their prerogative, but you can't legislate or mandate it when it goes against the playing rules of baseball.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I don't follow the logic here. The home team expects even fans of their opponents to give the right of way to the home team when it reaches into the fans' domain to attempt a play? If I am a Twins fan, I am going to try to knock the ball out the player's hand who is invading my space, as is my right as a fan. The player is trying to take my souvenir away, and he's going to have to fight me for it. Rays fans may wish to part the Red Sea for their players, that's their prerogative, but you can't legislate or mandate it when it goes against the playing rules of baseball.

Acting drunk or disorderly is not against the playing rules of baseball, but a ballpark can certainly legislate or mandate that you not do it or be removed from the park. The assertion that the ballpark has no authority over it's fans other than those proscribed in the rulebook that rules the game they are watching is asinine.