8.3.2.k

[Sco53]

F6 fields a ground ball and throws to F3 in attempt to retire B1 at first. The ball is thrown wide. As F3 lunges toward the ball, F3 collides with B1, knocking him to the ground prior to possessing the ball (a) while the runner is short of first base or (b) after the runner has contacted first base.
RULING: (a) Obstruction; (b) legal

Any ideas why the rulings are different?

[Richvee]

Originally Posted by Sco53

F6 fields a ground ball and throws to F3 in attempt to retire B1 at first. The ball is thrown wide. As F3 lunges toward the ball, F3 collides with B1, knocking him to the ground prior to possessing the ball (a) while the runner is short of first base or (b) after the runner has contacted first base.
RULING: (a) Obstruction; (b) legal

Any ideas why the rulings are different?

I've read this play a few times and I still have a problem picturing how F3 knocks over B1 after B1 has passed 1st.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Richvee

I've read this play a few times and I still have a problem picturing how F3 knocks over B1 after B1 has passed 1st.

Picture the "wide" being toward foul right field.

[Richvee]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Picture the "wide" being toward foul right field.

OK. I can see it. Thanks. Given that situation, if F3 doesn't catch the ball, hasn't he obstructed B1 from advancing to 2nd?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Sco53

Any ideas why the rulings are different?

Sure, only in (a) does the fielder prevent the BR from reaching the base.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Sure, only in (a) does the fielder prevent the BR from reaching the base.

In b it prevents the runner from going to 2nd as quickly as they would have if the ball is not caught. This ruling is not congruent with the rest of the book.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

In b it prevents the runner from going to 2nd as quickly as they would have if the ball is not caught. This ruling is not congruent with the rest of the book.

In both versions of the case, F3 possesses the ball, making an advance by the BR unwise. The case is designed to address OBS at 1B only.

I'd certainly consider OBS if the ball got away from F3.

[UmpTTS43]

Not enough information to answer adequately.

[MikeStrybel]

Sure there is. On this ground ball play, the runner will be almost always running through the base, not looking to go to second. On a wide throw (as opposed to an inside throw), the fielder may be taken into a place where his momentum causes a collison with B/R after he has gained the base safely. The latter was not impeded on a ball that is caught. As has been suggested, if the throw had sailed high and wide (or skipped by), and the runner would have likely had an opportunity to advance, you could have OBS.

I once had a play involving just such a throw. The right handed first baseman lunged towards right for the throw from third and caught it just above his shoulders. He windmilled his arm backwards and caught the B/R squarely in the face a half step past the bag. B/R went down in a heap, covered in blood from a broken nose. After the player was removed, his HC wanted to know if his new base runner was going to get 2nd. He did not since there was no OBS. The HC smiled, knowing that he had tried, as he walked away.

[UmpTTS43]

Originally Posted by Sco53

F6 fields a ground ball and throws to F3 in attempt to retire B1 at first. The ball is thrown wide. As F3 lunges toward the ball, F3 collides with B1, knocking him to the ground prior to possessing the ball (a) while the runner is short of first base or (b) after the runner has contacted first base.
RULING: (a) Obstruction; (b) legal

Any ideas why the rulings are different?

Was F3 in position to field the wide throw or was he "chasing" after it? If he was in position, nothing. If he was chasing, OBS.

Again, not enough info.