Crazy first game play

[David B]

Started season last night and had to laugh! B1 gets on first, B2 hits DP ball to F6 and they retire the runner at second but fail to make the throw in time at first. Coach hollers "he's got to slide at second or he's out." Gonna be a great season.

But do have a question. R1 and BR hits trouble ball to right center. F9 dives for the ball, hits his glove, the ball pops up and he catches it barehanded before it hits the ground. I'm PU and moving towards 3B when I see partner signal "safe"

Play continues and we end up with R3 and R2. Coach of course argues, and BU comes to me to ask if a catch or not. Guys been calling for years, but didn't seem to know the rule on a catch, but that's another story.

Anyway, we enforce the out, but I ask, what do you do with the runners?
If you leave R1 at third, they can appeal and get an out.

Just wondering what you might do?

I enforced the rule that we put the runner in jeopardy so we returned him to first and continued play.

Thanks
David

[jicecone]

I would have to go along with what you did. Actually you were enforcing NFHS10-2-3l,

"The UIC can rectify any situation in which an umpires decision that was reversed has placed either team at a disadvantage."

[lawump]

Best "first game" play I ever had was two years ago. First game of the year that had a larger school (that was good) against a smaller school that was not so good. Game is clearly going to be a "mercy game" (high school rules).

In the fifth inning, large school brings in a kid who is pitching for the first time ever in a high school game. After getting two quick outs, F1 walks a batter on four pitches. F1 now pitching from the stretch. F1 comes set and then turns his shoulders (a lot) to look over at R1 so I call a balk. Coach asks, "what did he do?" I tell him and coach completely agrees and tells F1 that he can only do that before he comes set.

On the very next (attempted) pitch, F1 fails to come anywhere close to stopping. I call a balk. Head coach does not argue at all; he just yells at his pitcher to "take your time and come set." [This was a very, very blatant balk.]

Now with an R3, F1 engages the pitcher's plate in the windup position. Head coach yells, "you've been pitching well from the stretch, go to the stretch." About five players/coaches from the dugout yell immediately, "step off correctly." For about two seconds I think time stopped and I swear I could actually see gears moving inside F1's head. You could then see the confusion come over his face and of course he steps back off the rubber with his non-pivot foot. "Balk!" F1's team's entire dugout came unglued dying of laughter. I swear some players were on the floor of the dugout they were laughing so hard. It is the closest I've ever come to breaking out in laughter on a baseball field as an umpire.

In the end, the offensive player took four straight balls for a walk and then scored on three balks before another pitch was thrown. And on top of that, there was not a single argument about any of the balk calls...they were all so blatant. Just when you think you've seen everything in baseball...

[rcaverly]

Originally Posted by jicecone

I would have to go along with what you did. Actually you were enforcing NFHS10-2-3l,

"The UIC can rectify any situation in which an umpires decision that was reversed has placed either team at a disadvantage."

From the 2011-2012 NFHS Baseball Umpires Manual, top of p.6, “…there are some calls that cannot be reversed. These include...the call of no catch of a fair fly with runners on base.”

[Rich]

Originally Posted by rcaverly

From the 2011-2012 NFHS Baseball Umpires Manual, top of p.6, “…there are some calls that cannot be reversed. These include...the call of no catch of a fair fly with runners on base.”

Yet another reason that book hits the trash soon after it comes in the mail.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Yet another reason that book hits the trash soon after it comes in the mail.

NCAA agrees with FED on this one. The no-catch call can't be changed (multiple runners with less than two out).

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by rcaverly

From the 2011-2012 NFHS Baseball Umpires Manual, top of p.6, “…there are some calls that cannot be reversed. These include...the call of no catch of a fair fly with runners on base.”

Good point. However, in this situation, it is implied that the BU made a decision based upon the his interpretation of the definition of a "Catch". Had he just blown the call though, I have to agree with you.

Having said that and not, having been there though, I can't say your right or wrong.

[David B]

Originally Posted by jicecone

Good point. However, in this situation, it is implied that the BU made a decision based upon the his interpretation of the definition of a "Catch". Had he just blown the call though, I have to agree with you.

Having said that and not, having been there though, I can't say your right or wrong.

That's correct. It was not a blown call, it was an interpretation of the rule.
I agree with Rich, FED manual is nothing but garbage!

I saw a similiar play several years ago in a playoff game, but in that situation the umpire did NOT signal catch or not. The play continued as if it was not a catch, then the umpire came back and said it was a catch. In that situation, I can see letting the play stand, (and of course ejecting a coach)

Thanks
David

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by jicecone

Good point. However, in this situation, it is implied that the BU made a decision based upon the his interpretation of the definition of a "Catch". Had he just blown the call though, I have to agree with you.

In this case, it doesn't matter why the call was wrong.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

In this case, it doesn't matter why the call was wrong.

Could be Dash, and not saying your wrong. I just don't see any supporting documentation, including this ("From the 2011-2012 NFHS Baseball Umpires Manual, top of p.6, “…there are some calls that cannot be reversed. These include...the call of no catch of a fair fly with runners on base.” ) That says your right either.

And I will admit it maybe my own lack of information.

[MD Longhorn]

I see your point, but ask yourself this... if the call was protested and BU gave his faulty interpretation of what a catch is - the protest would overturn the mistaken rule application. Probably more prudent to fix this on the field despite the inappropriate and difficulty-causing statement that you're quoting.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

if the call was protested and BU gave his faulty interpretation of what a catch is - the protest would overturn the mistaken rule application.

It would acknowledge it, but not necessarily overturn it, for the very reason it wouldn't be overturned on the field--there is no "fix."

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by jicecone

I would have to go along with what you did. Actually you were enforcing NFHS10-2-3l,

"The UIC can rectify any situation in which an umpires decision that was reversed has placed either team at a disadvantage."

The OP isn't one of the situations where you can un-ring the bell.

[jicecone]

OK after reading many articles about judgement vs interpretation, I have to agree that even though the BU interpretation of the definition of a catch was initially incorrect, his judgement that the batter was safe on the catch, was in error and therfore not reversible with runners on base. In accordance with the rules.