Does the run score?

[Rich]

8.4.2 Situation K covers this play. B1 is out on strike 3. R1 is out if the umpire thinks he would've been out absent the interference, otherwise he's returned to first. It's a horrible ruling, IMO in that in OBR/NCAA we'd bang two and return R3 to third without any judgment.

This is not delayed dead, IMO. Return R3 to third.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

If the first throw directly results in an out then the interference is ignored and the rest of the play stands. The run scores.

Bob, are you missing the fact that the pitch was strike 3?

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Bob, are you missing the fact that the pitch was strike 3?

Irrelevant, the throw retired the runner.

[UmpTTS43]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

Ruling is the same in all codes. Interference is disregarded because the first throw retired the runner.

This is incorrect. Your above senario only relates to Batter Interference not Retired Batter Interference. Once the batter is retired the "initial throw" interp goes out the window.

I just gave you the rule. 7.09e

[johnnyg08]

Any batter or runner who has just been put out, or any runner who has just scored, hinders or impedes any following play being made on a runner. Such runner shall be declared out for the interference of his teammate. There it is.

So what's the proper mechanic for this then? The throw did retire the runner. Or is it immediately dead at the TOI?

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

kyle,

That would be "making up a rule".

By rule, if the F2 chooses to play on the runner going into 2B AND his initial throw retires the runner, the BI is disregarded - treated as if it hadn't happened.

Just because you think the BR was "intentionally screening" the F2 from seeing the runner advancing from 3B doesn't change the rule or give you the authority to make up your own rule to suit your personal sense of fairness.

JM

So TT, is this incorrect then?

[UmpTTS43]

When you have F2 attempt a play when the now retired batter interferes, you kill it immediately "Time, that's interference. Batter, you're out on strikes" point to runner F2 wanted to play on, "Runner you're out for the interference" Then send other runners back.

On a side note, the initial throw interpretation only applies to OBR. In NCAA, and FED I believe, as soon as F2 makes an attempt and aborts his throw, the play is dead regardless if F2 subsequently throws to another base and retires a runner.

In all reality, F2 will know if R3 is running on the pitch. The most common senario is a delayed steal, R1 runs to draw a throw, R3 breaks on the throw or a suicide squueze.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by UmpTTS43

When you have F2 attempt a play when the now retired batter interferes, you kill it immediately "Time, that's interference. Batter, you're out on strikes" point to runner F2 wanted to play on, "Runner you're out for the interference" Then send other runners back.

On a side note, the initial throw interpretation only applies to OBR. In NCAA, and FED I believe, as soon as F2 makes an attempt and aborts his throw, the play is dead regardless if F2 subsequently throws to another base and retires a runner.

In all reality, F2 will know if R3 is running on the pitch. The most common senario is a delayed steal, R1 runs to draw a throw, R3 breaks on the throw or a suicide squueze.

I'm not questioning the OBR/NCAA ruling. That's pretty clear. The NFHS ruling, though, *is* different, based on case play 8.4.2 Situation K.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Bob, are you missing the fact that the pitch was strike 3?

I was when I agreed with him.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

8.4.2 Situation K covers this play. B1 is out on strike 3. R1 is out if the umpire thinks he would've been out absent the interference, otherwise he's returned to first. It's a horrible ruling, IMO in that in OBR/NCAA we'd bang two and return R3 to third without any judgment.

This is not delayed dead, IMO. Return R3 to third.

But note that the case play does NOT say "it's an immediate dead ball..." The case play allows the (errant) throw and then kills it. So, it seems to me, that they's allow the (true) throw and ignore the "interference".

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by UmpTTS43

On a side note, the initial throw interpretation only applies to OBR. In NCAA, and FED I believe, as soon as F2 makes an attempt and aborts his throw, the play is dead regardless if F2 subsequently throws to another base and retires a runner.

I think this part is the same in all codes. If there's an initial throw (ignore, for now the strike 3 issue) that directly retires a runner, ignore the interference. If there's an aborted attempt, or a rundown, or ...., then enforce the interference.

[RPatrino]

As I read situation K, we handle each runner separately. R1 (on third) cannot score because of the interference, so they are returned to 3rd. In the situation presented, F2's throw is errant, so we must judge whether R2 would have been out on a 'true' throw. If so, R2 is out. If not, R2 is returned to 1b.

Now, since in the situation presented here the throw retired R2, he is out. The assumption I make here is that in situation K, since the throw was errant, time is immediately called. Had the throw been true and retired R2, this would be a delayed dead ball. However, in any case, R1(on third) is returned to third.

[UmpTTS43]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I think this part is the same in all codes. If there's an initial throw (ignore, for now the strike 3 issue) that directly retires a runner, ignore the interference. If there's an aborted attempt, or a rundown, or ...., then enforce the interference.

R1R2. 0-0 count. Double steal. As F2 attempts to throw to 3rd to make a play on R2, he is interfered with by the batter. F2 aborts the throw to 3rd and throws to 2nd in time to retire R1. In OBR INT is ignored since initial throw retired a runner. In NCAA the ball is dead as soon as F2 aborts this throw to 3rd. Batter out, runners return.

[UmpJM]

UmpTT,

I'm killing it as soon as the F2 aborts his initial attempt to retire R2 as a result of the interference. Under all codes.

Batter out, runners return.

JM

[jicecone]

BRD 2012 Section 275 pg 176, "Int by Batter w/ Catcher:Throw to Base:Batter Retired". NFHS: In summary if the if the ump believes the runner would have been out without the interference, the ump will declare the runner being played on, out. Others return TOP. If umpires judges no chance on any runner, Runners return TOP.

NCAA/OBR: The ump will call out another runner "whom he judges the defense would have played".

I would, and have taken the runner from third. Others return TOP.

NCAA/OBR you always get two. NFHS not necessarilly, but definetly for the Sit. presented.