Does the run score?

[UmpTTS43]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

First of all, Mark that would be R3 & R1 as we all despise the old FED runner identification. Please use the MLB and more accepted designation of R1=1st base, R2= 2nd base, R3= 3rd base.

That said, if F2 got the throw to F6 in time to tag R1 out, then there was no interference. The run scores.

I also think that F2 should have pumped to 2nd then nailed R3 coming into home.

True if INT was by the batter. We are talking about a retired batter, in which case you would be wrong. Again 7.09e

There is a distict difference between batter interference and interferece by a retired batter. Different rules, different interpretations. It really isn't that difficult.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by UmpTTS43

True if INT was by the batter. We are talking about a retired batter, in which case you would be wrong. Again 7.09e

There is a distict difference between batter interference and interferece by a retired batter. Different rules, different interpretations.

As there should be... in case one, ruling the batter out is an appropriate penalty... in case to, batter is already out and would be NO penalty.

It really isn't that difficult.

Truly. Truly stunned at the big names here not noticing the most important part of the equation.

[Umpmazza]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

As there should be... in case one, ruling the batter out is an appropriate penalty... in case to, batter is already out and would be NO penalty.
Truly. Truly stunned at the big names here not noticing the most important part of the equation.

on this play if the batter strikes out, and there is less than 2 outs... the runner is also out.... pretty simple here.

But there is a penalty for interference..

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Umpmazza

But there is a penalty for interference..

Of course there is. But calling the batter out (again) is no penalty. The penalty for a retired batter interfering is the runner being called out as well.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

First of all, Mark that would be R3 & R1 as we all despise the old FED runner identification. Please use the MLB and more accepted designation of R1=1st base, R2= 2nd base, R3= 3rd base.

That said, if F2 got the throw to F6 in time to tag R1 out, then there was no interference. The run scores.

I also think that F2 should have pumped to 2nd then nailed R3 coming into home.

Ozzy:

My OP was for a game played under NFHS Rules so it was very appropriate for me to use NFHS nomenclature. I know I also asked, as a matter of information only, rulings using NCAA and MLB rules, so get over yourself. I rarely umpire using NCAA or MLB rules so if I ask for a NFHS ruling I will use NFHS nomenclature.

MTD, Sr.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I would like to thank everybody who has participated in the thread, but in reading the posts, I find some people have not addressed the exact play that I gave in my OP and that has muddied the waters somewhat.

That is, B3's interference did not prevent F2 from throwing R2 out at 2B as R2 attempted to steal 2B while R1 was attempting to steal HP. Does R1's run count? Many people have talked about F2 failing to throw out R2, which is addressed in both the NFHS Delayed Dead Ball Table and Casebook Play 8.4.2 Situation B.

MTD, Sr.

[ODJ]

Retired batter is out on strikes. Immediate dead ball on his interference. Call a runner out, return the other. Calling R1(2) out is easiest, most understandable to explain.

Key is the retired batter.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by ODJ

Retired batter is out on strikes. Immediate dead ball on his interference. Call a runner out, return the other. Calling R1(2) out is easiest, most understandable to explain.

Key is the retired batter.

Not for this situation for Fed. The runner played on at second is the one that is out. R1 returns TOP.

NCAA and OBR , it works.

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

The following was discussed at our LOA's umpires' meeting last night.

NFHS Rules (but would like to know the answer for NCAA and MLB too):

Play: R1 on 3B, R2 on 1B; 0 outs; 2 strikes on the Batter/B3. R1 breaks for HP and R2 breaks for 2B as F1 delivers the Pitch to B3. B3 swings and misses for Strike 3 and F2 catches the pitch cleanly for Out #1. B3's swing causes him to step over HP. F2 catches the pitch cleanly and throws to 2B. The PU signals a Delayed DB, verbalizes the Interference by B3. F2's throw to F6 at 2B is in time for F6 to tag R2 for the Out #2 while R1 scores from 3B.

I do not know why the PU signalled a delayed dead ball since we do not have BI. The batter was out on strike 3 so he is no longer a batter. He is not a retired runner because he never became a runner to begin with (He was out as soon as he K'd and F2 caught the ball cleanly). He is treated as a member of the offense.

From the OP, the PU judged interference (signalled a Delayed DB and verbalized the Interference) therefore the ball should have been immediately dead at that point not delayed dead.

In this play R1 is out on the interference (since that is the runner on whom the defense played) and R3 is returned to third base. I would rule that way even in FED.

Pete Booth

[dash_riprock]

[QUOTE=PeteBooth;827426]

From the OP, the PU judged interference (signalled a Delayed DB and verbalized the Interference) therefore the ball should have been immediately dead at that point not delayed dead.

In this play R1 is out on the interference (since that is the runner on whom the defense played) and R3 is returned to third base. I would rule that way even in FED.

Pete Booth

If the ball is immediately dead then there can be no play on R1 (or R3 for that matter).

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

Correct but R1 is still out

Pete Booth

[Rich Ives]

[QUOTE=PeteBooth;827426]

He is not a retired runner because he never became a runner to begin with (He was out as soon as he K'd and F2 caught the ball cleanly).

8-1-1-b The batter DOES become a runner then is instantly out if strike three is caught.

[Publius]

[QUOTE=Rich Ives;827683]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

8-1-1-b The batter DOES become a runner then is instantly out if strike three is caught.

Though not explicitly spelled out as it is in FED, it's the same in all codes. That's why the batter, except in double-play situations, is allowed to attempt to reach first base safely when a third strike is uncaught.

[Rich Ives]

[QUOTE=Publius;827913]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Though not explicitly spelled out as it is in FED, it's the same in all codes. That's why the batter, except in double-play situations, is allowed to attempt to reach first base safely when a third strike is uncaught.

Actually the OBR and NCAA rules say he becomes a runner if the third strike is NOT caught when eligible to attempt to go to first. 6.09(b ) 8-2-c . Implication is that if the third strike IS caught he does not become a runner.