What is it with "HELP"

chris s · #1 (**permalink**) Sat May 31, 2003, 09:37pm

Top 5 tonite, home up by 12. V has R1, I got sacks. Can of corn to right center, ball touches glove, I glance at first, R1 is an easy 3 steps towards second, ball is caught. Home coaches are all screaming to appeal, smart cut-off kid does so, I wack the second out.FBC wants me to ask PU for help, I sez no, got it all the way, kid was way off bag at touch.FBC claims I can't get both ends of this play, sorry bud, I did. Next kid K's, game over. 3BC runs to PU(20 year old with 3 games on the dish) crying that PU has the re-touch at first, I intervene and tell him, no, I got both....Now we be hearing "ya gotta ask for help, bla-bla" What i wanted to do, and did not, was to just ream this idiot. PU, after game, sez" you shoulda asked, I woulda reamed him...OUT!!!"

Why SOOO much crying for help, seems to be getting outa hand.....

GarthB · #2 (**permalink**) Sat May 31, 2003, 10:02pm

This is the unintended yet all to obvious consequence of so many umpires before you going for help whenever the coach asks. They've trained the coaches to expect everyone will go for help whether they need it or not and whether it's appropriate or not. Some people just don't know how or when to say "no."

Whowefoolin · #3 (**permalink**) Sun Jun 01, 2003, 12:43am

Good, smart coaches. They are using tactics they know instead of sitting on their butts.

First of all, it is not your job to get both ends of that play. The coach knows and he called you on it. Because he knows it, he asked you to go to your partner.

If you have the sacks with runner on, your call is the catch/no catch, and the PU is coming out to take the tag ups. IT IS HIS CALL ON THE APPEAL. You stepped in when you shouldn't have and made a mess.

Why didn't you have proper mechanics and let you partner make the call on the appeal? Now if he missed it and comes to you, give him what you have and let him straighten out the mess.

Don't try to over umpire and show everyone you can do everything. We know you can, but that is why you have a partner.

YOU CAUSED THE COACH TO BELLY-ACHE, so now you know why they do!

Rich · #4 (**permalink**) Sun Jun 01, 2003, 03:18am

Whowefoolin? You must be fooling yourself because you are wrong. The base umpire in the middle always has tag up responsibilities on R1.

Please find me a single written source that has the PU taking the tag at first base. On the other hand, I could quote the UDP 2-man manual and the Referee baseball guidebook, both of which make it clear that the tag up at first belongs to the BASE umpire.

Rich

chris s · #5 (**permalink**) Sun Jun 01, 2003, 10:13am

Quote:

Originally posted by Whowefoolin
Good, smart coaches. They are using tactics they know instead of sitting on their butts.

First of all, it is not your job to get both ends of that play. The coach knows and he called you on it. Because he knows it, he asked you to go to your partner.

If you have the sacks with runner on, your call is the catch/no catch, and the PU is coming out to take the tag ups. IT IS HIS CALL ON THE APPEAL. You stepped in when you shouldn't have and made a mess.

Why didn't you have proper mechanics and let you partner make the call on the appeal? Now if he missed it and comes to you, give him what you have and let him straighten out the mess.

Don't try to over umpire and show everyone you can do everything. We know you can, but that is why you have a partner.

YOU CAUSED THE COACH TO BELLY-ACHE, so now you know why they do!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!1
Pu only has tag-up of third, EVER.Unless working solo. Log on to amazon and buy the PBUC Manual for the 2 man system

GarthB · #6 (**permalink**) Sun Jun 01, 2003, 11:56am

Whowefoolin, you be foolin.

Before lecturing on mechanics, be sure you know what they are. BU has both touches pro, FED and NCAA.

"Good smart coaches" HA.

Whiney, pampered and clueless fits better in this scenario.

chris s · #7 (**permalink**) Sun Jun 01, 2003, 12:30pm

Quote:

Originally posted by GarthB
Whowefoolin, you be foolin.

Before lecturing on mechanics, be sure you know what they are. BU has both touches pro, FED and NCAA.

"Good smart coaches" HA.

Whiney, pampered and clueless fits better in this scenario.

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I like that!, STUPID rings a bell also, but then again, I can't make that assertion on the field, at least not publically.....

oatmealqueen · #8 (**permalink**) Sun Jun 01, 2003, 05:38pm

BU has those tags at 1st and 2nd in softball only. Maybe whowefoolin has it confused. (happens to me too)

JRutledge · #9 (**permalink**) Sun Jun 01, 2003, 08:20pm

There are all kind of exceptions to who has what. Depending on who has the ball as their primary coverage, the PU might have more than just 3rd on a tag up. But this is a pregame issue and needs to be discussed accordingly. Because in many situation, I might have the lead runner in an attempt to third base, so I would have the tag up. The mechanics books are guides, but there are always exceptions to what might happen.

Peace

GarthB · #10 (**permalink**) Sun Jun 01, 2003, 08:40pm

"but there are always exceptions to what might happen."

No, not always. We create exceptions. If none are created, they do not exist. And, who in their right mind would base yelling at an umpire on a perceived exception. T

he point of this thread to this point is the complaint by the coach and then the claim by a poster that the mechanics utilized by the umpire were improper. They were not. Both the coach and the poster were wrong.

Now then, if the coach or the poster were to have had a pregame with Chris and had designated a different mechanic...you might have a point.

chris s · #11 (**permalink**) Sun Jun 01, 2003, 08:56pm

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
There are all kind of exceptions to who has what. Depending on who has the ball as their primary coverage, the PU might have more than just 3rd on a tag up. But this is a pregame issue and needs to be discussed accordingly. Because in many situation, I might have the lead runner in an attempt to third base, so I would have the tag up. The mechanics books are guides, but there are always exceptions to what might happen.

Peace

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55 umps working our youth ball, ONE set of mechanics...PBUC/UDP 2 man system. R1 , base hit to the gap, PU has the "lead runner" into third, nothing more.....

soonerfan · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 02, 2003, 02:37am

i have always been taught that you (wherever you are) should try to put yourself in a position to see both happen at once...as long as your are jeopardizing better position. like the can of corn...you can step back a bit to possibly get both in view at once...sinking liner...better get the catch/no catch and hope your partner isn't taking tickets.