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Thu May 22, 2003, 03:22pm
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I got a question about a call at one of my boy's games I thought you guys would be good to answer.
Runners on 2nd and 3rd. Pitcher sets up on the rubber from an "open stretch". (front foot at about a 45 degree angle from the rubber towards 1st base, hope you can picture that.) He then takes a small step in to come set (still slightly open) then he drags his foot towards himself and pulls back and fires home. They called a balk. I questioned thier reasoning. They said that his drag of his foot was illegal. I could understand that if he went towards third but he went ahead and threw the pitch. The umpires after I started talking to them and fixing the pitcher acted kinda confused like they weren't even sure if they were right anymore. So I figured you guys could let me know if it sounds legal...hope you can picture it. Thanks for your time. 
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Thu May 22, 2003, 03:37pm
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wrong!
clint,
i dont see anything wrong with that. there was no intent on decieving the runner, and it sounds like the move was a part of his normal delivery. they blew it coach... tuck
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Thu May 22, 2003, 03:42pm
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Quote:
NFHS 6.1.3 He shall come to a complete and discernible stop (a change of direction is not considered an acceptable stop) with the ball in both hands in front of the body and his glove at or below his chin. Natural preliminary motions such as ONLY ONE STRETCH may be made. It sounds to me it looked weird and there was a pause in there somewhere, and therefore a balk call was made.
__________________
"A picture is worth a thousand words".
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Thu May 22, 2003, 03:52pm
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Only allowed to come set ONCE.
NFHS/FED rules (6-1-3) say: He shall go to the set position without interruption and in one continuous motion. He shall come to a complete and discernible stop... Natural preliminary motions such as only one stretch may be made. 6-2-4d says: failing to pitch to the batter in a continuous motion IMMEDIATELY after any movement of any part of the body such a he habitually uses in his delivery. Other rules/codes are similar. As for descriptions of most motion situations, we almost always feel we Had To Be There and to see the motion. Every pitch does not need to be delivered identically or at the same pace. However, dragging the non-pivot foot doesn't sound like a habitual motion and it doesn't sound like an immediate motion... it sounds deceptive. It sounds like BALK was the correct call. If he is your pitcher, why was he dragging his foot? The rule doesn't specifically say anything about you can't drag your non-pivot foot (and perhaps this is what the umpires were discussing) but the motion does sound hokey. If the slow drag is a habitual motion, then I would feel that as soon as the drag begins, the pitcher is now committed to throw to the plate. To step off or throw to a base after the drag has begun would be a balk. Just my thoughts but still HTBT.
__________________
"There are no superstar calls. We don't root for certain teams. We don't cheat. But sometimes we just miss calls." - Joe Crawford
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Thu May 22, 2003, 09:53pm
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Quote:
Strech and set sound way OK(although strange with no R1) Dragging the foot is ok, also. PROVIDED it is done without interuption or alteration. If he drags, hesitates(and give a little herky J to third) and then pitches, we got a balk. What you posted is pefectly legal
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Thu May 22, 2003, 11:13pm
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Thank you for your replys that was pretty much what I thought. Also while we are on the whole balk conversation...I just got back froma g ame tonight and a pitcher was "quick-pitching" us while we had a runner on third.
He would start disengaed from the rubber then move his back foot onto the rubber. He would go from that position and either pitch or throw to third. I was pretty sure that from that position he would have to make a movement to come "set". Without him comming set we couldn't really get a leadoff. The umpires looked fairly new and it looked liek they blew it. The pitcher did it every time we had runners on. It was obviously to keep runners close. Big time balk in my book. Can someone confirm this with a rule so I can take it to the UIC and sound like I know the rules behind it. Thank you again for your time.
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Fri May 23, 2003, 08:50am
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Quote:
It's likely over-officious umpires as these that may have been the cause for Quasimoto never reaching his full potential as a pitcher. Freix
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Fri May 23, 2003, 12:08pm
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Quote:
Also, what rules is this league playing under?
__________________
"A picture is worth a thousand words".
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Fri May 23, 2003, 01:47pm
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CDCoach,
Had the same situation with a pitcher the other night. Started with the foot 4-6 inches in front of the pitching rubber, moved into the set position and foot back in contact with the rubber in one motion. to me it was an illegal move based on OBR: Rule 8.01 (b) The Set Position. Set Position shall be indicated by the pitcher when he stands facing the batter with his entire pivot foot on, or in front of, and in contact with, and not off the end of the pitcher's plate, and his other foot in front of the pitcher's plate, holding the ball in both hands in front of his body and coming to a complete stop. From such Set Position he may deliver the ball to the batter, throw to a base or step backward off the pitcher's plate with his pivot foot. Before assuming Set Position, the pitcher may elect to make any natural preliminary motion such as that known as "the stretch." But if he so elects, he shall come to Set Position before delivering the ball to the batter. This is in a 11/12 year old local league and there is room to warn or caution before calling balks. I noticed it in his warm ups so it was corrected before play began. This again was my intepertation, open for input from the board. Here to learn too. Jeff
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Fri May 23, 2003, 02:21pm
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Thank you that is perfect.
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Fri May 23, 2003, 05:04pm
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That s a quick pitch
What you described is a quick pitch.
He must toe the rubber and then come set in order to pitch. He may toe the rubber and then throw to the base as long as he steps toward the base first. At least that's what I think you described. Also, many young pitchers will toe the rubber and then immediately go to the set position. Make sure they are taking the sign from the rubber and not before and then stepping on the rubber and continuing. As the kids get older this would be a bad habit to break. Thanks David Quote:
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Fri May 23, 2003, 05:16pm
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Clint,
First situation I have no balk, just a real weird motion. Why is he setting up on the 45 degree line. Remember he must have both direction and distance on his step towards first or its a balk, just being on the "45" doesn't eliminate that requirement. Also, once he starts the dragging of his foot back he is committed to the plate. Second situation, I have a balk. Pitcher must assume a set postion while engaging the rubber. He cannot be set while off the rubber, and if he steps off the rubber after coming set he must "lower his hands" or you have a balk when he re-engages. Also, the pither does not have to come set to throw to a base.
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