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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 12, 2012, 07:01pm
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Bat Checks Eliminated

Some of you may have had this info for a while, if so I apologize for repeating it. Another thread spoke of bat rolling and how the NFHS is asking manufacturers to come up with a tamper proof design for the future. I noted that in Illinois, we won't be doing the pre-game bat/hat check this year. Coaches will have to verify if their team is properly equipped and some of us wondered whether there would be any teeth to the change.

The 2012 NFHS Baseball preseason guide's cover story covers it. 7-4-1a will be the penalty for the batter - out or the defense can have the result of the play. However, the coach is restricted to the dugout. If it happens a second time in the same game, he is ejected. Further violations and the replacement coach gets bounced.

This means that baseball now joins football and other sports where the HC needs to verify that his players are compliant. I am new to football officiating and don't work other sports; is baseball the only one that now has a penalty given to the coach for illegal equipment?
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Old Thu Jan 12, 2012, 10:16pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStrybel View Post
Some of you may have had this info for a while, if so I apologize for repeating it. Another thread spoke of bat rolling and how the NFHS is asking manufacturers to come up with a tamper proof design for the future. I noted that in Illinois, we won't be doing the pre-game bat/hat check this year. Coaches will have to verify if their team is properly equipped and some of us wondered whether there would be any teeth to the change.

The 2012 NFHS Baseball preseason guide's cover story covers it. 7-4-1a will be the penalty for the batter - out or the defense can have the result of the play. However, the coach is restricted to the dugout. If it happens a second time in the same game, he is ejected. Further violations and the replacement coach gets bounced.
I see you got the same mail I did. It seemed a little early, but then again I am not thinking baseball at all right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStrybel View Post
This means that baseball now joins football and other sports where the HC needs to verify that his players are compliant. I am new to football officiating and don't work other sports; is baseball the only one that now has a penalty given to the coach for illegal equipment?
Well they already had to do that, we just had to check bats anyway. Now we do not. Great change and it matches other levels. Put the burden on the opponents to identify an illegal bat. Otherwise we should not be in the business of doing that in that case.

Also football is not the only sport that penalizes a coach. Basketball does the same for uniforms that are illegal, but in basketball that is about the only equipment that affects the game. A head band, wristband or "shooting sleeve" has no affect on the game or safety of the players. We just have players remove those items. A Uniform can affect the way the game is officiated slightly.

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Last edited by JRutledge; Fri Jan 13, 2012 at 05:13pm. Reason: I did not answer a question.
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Old Thu Jan 12, 2012, 10:16pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStrybel View Post
Some of you may have had this info for a while, if so I apologize for repeating it. Another thread spoke of bat rolling and how the NFHS is asking manufacturers to come up with a tamper proof design for the future. I noted that in Illinois, we won't be doing the pre-game bat/hat check this year. Coaches will have to verify if their team is properly equipped and some of us wondered whether there would be any teeth to the change.

The 2012 NFHS Baseball preseason guide's cover story covers it. 7-4-1a will be the penalty for the batter - out or the defense can have the result of the play. However, the coach is restricted to the dugout. If it happens a second time in the same game, he is ejected. Further violations and the replacement coach gets bounced.

This means that baseball now joins football and other sports where the HC needs to verify that his players are compliant. I am new to football officiating and don't work other sports; is baseball the only one that now has a penalty given to the coach for illegal equipment?
Yet it is next to impossible to tell if a bat has been rolled or not.
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Old Fri Jan 13, 2012, 11:07am
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Originally Posted by johnnyg08 View Post
Yet it is next to impossible to tell if a bat has been rolled or not.
Nowadays it really doesn't matter if a bat is rolled, or not. Current testing procedures actually roll a bat until failure, and test is along the way. If it tests over the limit at any point, it doesn't pass.

What we really need to look out for is shaving. And that involves the removal of the end cap.
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Old Fri Jan 13, 2012, 03:41pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStrybel View Post
I am new to football officiating and don't work other sports; is baseball the only one that now has a penalty given to the coach for illegal equipment?
In FED football, the team is penalized 15 yards, plus the head coach is charged with an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty. After his second, he goes to the bus (and, in our state, writes a $300 check).
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Old Sat Jan 14, 2012, 02:09am
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Originally Posted by kylejt View Post

What we really need to look out for is shaving. And that involves the removal of the end cap.
Good luck with that. I have an old softball bat that I know is shaved, and you cannot tell with the closest examination of the naked eye the end cap was taken off.

Believe me, I've seen many a bat that have been shaved.
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Old Sat Jan 14, 2012, 10:36am
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That will be the first thing I do after brushing the bases off, Check for shaved bats.
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Old Sat Jan 14, 2012, 01:13pm
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Originally Posted by jicecone View Post
That will be the first thing I do after brushing the bases off, Check for shaved bats.
I believe this is right after the pre-game meeting on how to question a call ("Come to me first, blue, even if it's about the base umpire."), correct?
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 14, 2012, 03:09pm
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Easy now, fellas. Put your base brush back in it's patent leather holster. I'm just saying to be aware of it, not to check for it. I've seen weighted end caps flying off bats, and hone marks in the inside of barrels. They're out there.
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Old Sat Jan 14, 2012, 06:45pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStrybel View Post
Is baseball the only (sport) that now has a penalty given to the coach for illegal equipment?
NFHS softball does- after a prescribed team warning on the first offense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kylejt View Post
Nowadays it really doesn't matter if a bat is rolled, or not. Current testing procedures actually roll a bat until failure, and test is along the way. If it tests over the limit at any point, it doesn't pass.
The testing procedure (advanced break-in, or ABI testing) doesn't have anything to do with bat doctoring.

The ABI test is conducted under controlled conditions. It's designed to simulate a bat's performance after being broken in from normal use. After being subjected to a defined, controlled loading, a bat must still meet the BBCOR specifications. If it does not, then it cannot be BBCOR certified (ie: the manufacturer may not affix the BBCOR certification label, rendering the bat unusable for NFHS play).

Not every bat sold is tested in this manner. Random bats from the manufacturer are sampled, then discarded after testing. So, if you buy a brand-new BBCOR bat, it has not been rolled (which seemed to be your implication with "it doesn't matter anyway").

Bat doctoring involves applying an unknown force applied in an unknown manner to an otherwise legal bat. It could be loaded well beyond what might be termed "normal use", causing the bat to perform in excess of the BBCOR specs. In short, it can create a bat that is "hotter" than a legal one broken in from normal game play. A rolled bat can create a performance advantage not intended by the rules, as well as safety issues (excessive batted ball speeds or possible breakage upon contact).

Last edited by BretMan; Sat Jan 14, 2012 at 07:08pm.
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Old Sat Jan 14, 2012, 08:44pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStrybel View Post
is baseball the only one that now has a penalty given to the coach for illegal equipment?

The Head Coach in Basketball is charged a one Direct Technical Foul for all illegal jersies being worn by his players.

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Old Sat Jan 14, 2012, 10:17pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStrybel View Post
is baseball the only one that now has a penalty given to the coach for illegal equipment?
In NFHS Track and Field, the coach must verify that his/her athletes are in proper uniform and legally equipped. However, the penalties are directed at the athletes. Using an illegal implement, even in warmups, results in disqualification from the event.
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Old Sat Jan 14, 2012, 11:30pm
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Ok, I have been out of the loop for a while, so could someone please explain to me the concepts of 'turning' and 'shaving'?
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Old Sun Jan 15, 2012, 08:09am
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Originally Posted by RPatrino View Post
Ok, I have been out of the loop for a while...
Not a bad place to be in this exercise in futility.
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Old Sun Jan 15, 2012, 10:45am
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Originally Posted by RPatrino View Post
Ok, I have been out of the loop for a while, so could someone please explain to me the concepts of 'turning' and 'shaving'?
Shaving a bat involves removing material from inside the barrel by honing it out. The thinner walls increases the trampoline effect, thus giving the bat more performance. This is not restricted to carbon fiber bats, though, as folks have also doctored metal bats in this fashion.

Here's an overview of how easy it is to get a doctored stick.

Bat Rolling and Bat Shaving, The BigDawg Difference! - YouTube
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