The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Baseball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 24, 2011, 08:46am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Northwest suburbs of Chicago
Posts: 645
BESR bats make a difference

I received my Baseball Express equipment catalogue the other day. After picking my jaw off the ground at the cost of gear, I brought the magazine to my football team's practice. A couple of guys also coach baseball and I wanted to give them a heads up on buying bats (many get their kids new sticks for Xmas). After reminding them that last year's bats would now be banned by our league, one guy whined that the bat didn't make a difference.

Here are the final NCAA stats after the new bat rule went into place.

D1:
Batting Average 2011 = .282 Batting Average 2010 = .305
Home runs 2011 = .52 per game Home runs 2010 = .94 per game
Runs Scored 2011 = 6.98 per game Runs Scored 2010 = 5.58 per game
ERAs 2011 = 4.67 per game ERAs 2010 = 5.95 per game

D2:
Batting Average 2011 = .289 Batting Average 2010 = .309
Home runs 2011 = .44 per game Home runs 2010 = .72 per game
Runs Scored 2011 = 5.78 per game Runs Scored 2010 = 6.75 per game
ERAs 2011 = 5.04 per game ERAs 2010 = 6.08 per game

D3:
Batting Average 2011 = .292 Batting Average 2010 = .314
Home runs 2011 = .35 per game Home runs 2010 = .58 per game
Runs Scored 2011 = 5.90 per game Runs Scored 2010 = 7.08 per game
ERAs 2011 = 5.13 per game ERAs 2010 = 6.30 per game

I haven't seen a HS study done with the less lively bats but my guess is that next year we will see fewer long balls and shots through the infield.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 24, 2011, 10:02am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 915
Kulpas missed call.

I can't believe that Kulpa didn't go for help on that tag play the other night. He was clearly out of position. I read a quote that said "I don't ask for help on that play". I understand his point and I try to get those calls myself but sometimes you can't get the angle and that's what your partner is there for.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 24, 2011, 10:06am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 915
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStrybel View Post
I received my Baseball Express equipment catalogue the other day. After picking my jaw off the ground at the cost of gear, I brought the magazine to my football team's practice. A couple of guys also coach baseball and I wanted to give them a heads up on buying bats (many get their kids new sticks for Xmas). After reminding them that last year's bats would now be banned by our league, one guy whined that the bat didn't make a difference.

Here are the final NCAA stats after the new bat rule went into place.

D1:
Batting Average 2011 = .282 Batting Average 2010 = .305
Home runs 2011 = .52 per game Home runs 2010 = .94 per game
Runs Scored 2011 = 6.98 per game Runs Scored 2010 = 5.58 per game
ERAs 2011 = 4.67 per game ERAs 2010 = 5.95 per game

D2:
Batting Average 2011 = .289 Batting Average 2010 = .309
Home runs 2011 = .44 per game Home runs 2010 = .72 per game
Runs Scored 2011 = 5.78 per game Runs Scored 2010 = 6.75 per game
ERAs 2011 = 5.04 per game ERAs 2010 = 6.08 per game

D3:
Batting Average 2011 = .292 Batting Average 2010 = .314
Home runs 2011 = .35 per game Home runs 2010 = .58 per game
Runs Scored 2011 = 5.90 per game Runs Scored 2010 = 7.08 per game
ERAs 2011 = 5.13 per game ERAs 2010 = 6.30 per game

I haven't seen a HS study done with the less lively bats but my guess is that next year we will see fewer long balls and shots through the infield.
Looking forward to BBCOR. Now when a pitcher makes a good pitch he'll be rewarded for it more often than not. Go to wood bats. They're cheaper and with the little guys they should last a long time. You'll also make them better hitters.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 24, 2011, 10:57am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: CT
Posts: 2,439
Quote:
Originally Posted by gordon30307 View Post
I can't believe that Kulpa didn't go for help on that tag play the other night. He was clearly out of position. I read a quote that said "I don't ask for help on that play". I understand his point and I try to get those calls myself but sometimes you can't get the angle and that's what your partner is there for.
What does this have to do with BESR or BBCOR bats? You need to look at the thread before you post, eh?
__________________
When in doubt, bang 'em out!
Ozzy
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 24, 2011, 12:25pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by gordon30307 View Post
. Go to wood bats. They're cheaper and with the little guys they should last a long time. You'll also make them better hitters.
New Mexico is going to wood bats this year!
http://www.nmact.org/athletics/baseb..._Wood_Bats.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 24, 2011, 02:30pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 8,033
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStrybel View Post
D1:
Runs Scored 2011 = 6.98 per game Runs Scored 2010 = 5.58 per game
ERAs 2011 = 4.67 per game ERAs 2010 = 5.95 per game
Seems impossible...

(Nevermind that ERA and per game are mutually exclusive terms)
__________________
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'”

West Houston Mike
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 24, 2011, 04:47pm
CT1 CT1 is offline
Official & ***** Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,049
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbcrowder View Post
Seems impossible...
Oh, it's possible. And the teams who used Nike bats were unknowingly penalized even more. Nike is no longer selling bats for use by college teams, and will allow teams it had under contract last year to use bats by other manufacturers.

"While using the Nike bats last year, Alabama hit just 23 home runs, down from an average of 86.6 over the previous three seasons.

The effects, though, were not specific to Alabama. Of the top 20 team leaders in home runs this past season, none used Nike bats. Alabama, Georgia, Kentucky, Miami, North Carolina and Southern Cal - all Nike schools - showed signs of substandard offensive performance. Prior to the 2010-11 season, Miami had not missed the postseason this millennium, reaching the College World Series five times. The Hurricanes blasted an average of more than 93 home runs a season from 2008-2010. This past year Miami hit just 33."
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 24, 2011, 04:58pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 1,428
Quote:
Originally Posted by CT1 View Post
Oh, it's possible. And the teams who used Nike bats were unknowingly penalized even more. Nike is no longer selling bats for use by college teams, and will allow teams it had under contract last year to use bats by other manufacturers.

"While using the Nike bats last year, Alabama hit just 23 home runs, down from an average of 86.6 over the previous three seasons.

The effects, though, were not specific to Alabama. Of the top 20 team leaders in home runs this past season, none used Nike bats. Alabama, Georgia, Kentucky, Miami, North Carolina and Southern Cal - all Nike schools - showed signs of substandard offensive performance. Prior to the 2010-11 season, Miami had not missed the postseason this millennium, reaching the College World Series five times. The Hurricanes blasted an average of more than 93 home runs a season from 2008-2010. This past year Miami hit just 33."
I think mbcrowder's observation was runs scored increased 25% while ERA was down 22%. Doesn't make sense unless those BBCOR bats caused a lot of errors.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 24, 2011, 05:35pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lindenhurst, IL
Posts: 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by dash_riprock View Post
I think mbcrowder's observation was runs scored increased 25% while ERA was down 22%. Doesn't make sense unless those BBCOR bats caused a lot of errors.
It makes perfect sense to me that balls coming off bats "hotter" would lead to an increase in errors committed by fielders.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 24, 2011, 05:36pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 7,620
Quote:
Originally Posted by InsideTheStripe View Post
It makes perfect sense to me that balls coming off bats "hotter" would lead to an increase in errors committed by fielders.
BBCOR bats should yield "cooler" balls... or something like that.
__________________
Cheers,
mb
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 24, 2011, 07:18pm
Is this a legal title?
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStrybel View Post
Here are the final NCAA stats after the new bat rule went into place.

D1:
Runs Scored 2011 = 6.98 per game Runs Scored 2010 = 5.58 per game
ERAs 2011 = 4.67 per game ERAs 2010 = 5.95 per game

D2:
Runs Scored 2011 = 5.78 per game Runs Scored 2010 = 6.75 per game
ERAs 2011 = 5.04 per game ERAs 2010 = 6.08 per game

D3:
Runs Scored 2011 = 5.90 per game Runs Scored 2010 = 7.08 per game
ERAs 2011 = 5.13 per game ERAs 2010 = 6.30 per game
Seems likely that D1 "runs scored" figures are transposed. Otherwise, how do you explain negative unearned runs per game (i.e., ERA is greater than average runs per game) in 2010?

D2 and D3 show roughly .75 unearned runs per game in both '10 and '11. If you switch the D1 runs scored figures, they'd show roughly 1 unearned run per game both years.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 25, 2011, 02:29am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 755
I think looking at one year of numbers isn't enough to prove the bats are that effective. I'll agree it's going to show the same in long-term numbers, but let's not jump the gun too quickly.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 25, 2011, 06:51am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by yawetag View Post
I think looking at one year of numbers isn't enough to prove the bats are that effective. I'll agree it's going to show the same in long-term numbers, but let's not jump the gun too quickly.
Also agree about one year. Batters will adjust and improve probably not back to pre BBCOR HR numbers but teams will adjust to style of play with the bat too
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 25, 2011, 09:08am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Northwest suburbs of Chicago
Posts: 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Publius View Post
Seems likely that D1 "runs scored" figures are transposed. Otherwise, how do you explain negative unearned runs per game (i.e., ERA is greater than average runs per game) in 2010?

D2 and D3 show roughly .75 unearned runs per game in both '10 and '11. If you switch the D1 runs scored figures, they'd show roughly 1 unearned run per game both years.
Good catch. I should have checked the data prior to posting it. The stuff I posted was given to me by a local college assignor. I went to the NCAA Arbiter site just now to verify and found the mistake. I gave you the credit for finding it when I sent him the news.

Here are the final NCAA stats after the new bat rule went into place.

D1:
Runs Scored 2011 = 5.58 per game Runs Scored 2010 = 6.98 per game
ERAs 2011 = 4.67 per game ERAs 2010 = 5.95 per game

D2:
Runs Scored 2011 = 5.78 per game Runs Scored 2010 = 6.75 per game
ERAs 2011 = 5.04 per game ERAs 2010 = 6.08 per game

D3:
Runs Scored 2011 = 5.90 per game Runs Scored 2010 = 7.08 per game
ERAs 2011 = 5.13 per game ERAs 2010 = 6.30 per game

The NCAA site also has a qualifier below the stats, "Averages are per game and per team." I can see why he included it but was not confused.

One year of data is not perfect but almost every coach I encountered agreed that the BBCOR bats made a huge difference. Slap shots become manageable groundballs. The 5'5" second baseman wasn't hitting bombs and the pitcher had time to react.

Last edited by MikeStrybel; Tue Oct 25, 2011 at 09:10am.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 25, 2011, 10:22am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 8,033
Quote:
Originally Posted by InsideTheStripe View Post
It makes perfect sense to me that balls coming off bats "hotter" would lead to an increase in errors committed by fielders.
OK, now that's just dumb. I was making a comment about the impossibility of those numbers because he posted one line BACKWARD. Let's not defend the possibility of the impossible numbers.

(Someone please tell me why these numbers would be incomprehensibly backward at Div 1, but not at the other two? Come on people.)
__________________
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'”

West Houston Mike
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Besr -3 Nigel Tufnel Baseball 17 Sun Apr 19, 2009 06:42pm
Good or Bad does it make a difference PeteBooth Baseball 22 Mon Jun 27, 2005 12:22pm
Make both calls and explain the difference! eventnyc Basketball 28 Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:57am
The difference the bats/balls make. greymule Softball 10 Fri Aug 08, 2003 09:48am
Home Plate Umpire does make a difference PeteBooth Baseball 2 Mon Oct 09, 2000 08:22pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:49am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1