Cardinal/Pirates appeal play on R3 SF

[Larry1953]

R3 with F-9 sac fly by the Pirates. The consensus is that Sam Holbrook kicked it when he called the out. The Pirates radio announcers feel it is worthy of demotion. They did point out that contrary to what they said earlier in the season, the ball does NOT have to go back to the pitcher who steps off the rubber to make the appeal throw. However Carpenter and the Cardinals still subscribe to that and went through those motions.

Hurdle got ejected the next half inning when he came back out to tell Holbrook the replay showed he missed the call.

[bob jenkins]

Is there a point?

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Is there a point?

Is there ever?

[Mrumpiresir]

And your point is???

[MrUmpire]

Obvious.

[Larry1953]

1) it looks like appeal myths are slowly being corrected.
2) the replay show Holbrook running into position and there was no way he was lined up to time the catch and the runner leaving the bag.
3) there is more and more discussion that umpires should be demoted for making "bad calls" that can be graded in replay.
4) the split screen replay rarely misses this call- eventually replay will probably be expanded to cover it
5) I just knew it would rile y'all up :-)

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

1)
3) there is more and more discussion that umpires should be demoted for making "bad calls" that can be graded in replay.

Really? And who are the participants in this discussion?

Demoted to what? Do you have a clue as to how the umpiring structure works?

[Larry1953]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Really? And who are the participants in this discussion?

Demoted to what? Do you have a clue as to how the umpiring structure works?

I have heard several broadcast crews make that point, saying that if players get demoted to the minors if they don't make the right plays, umpires should be demoted to the minors for making bad calls. I think that is stupid reasoning, but that sentiment is persistently out there.

I don't know the structure of the ranks in umpiring. It seems to be a good idea to have a father who umpired. It seems that once an umpire makes the show, his skills can seriously degrade over the years but they remain. I have an idea that there is significant union protection.

I have no idea about Sam Holbrook's reputation but he did not appear to be in proper position. In the ninth, he called an out on an attempted sac bunt with R1 and R2. At live speed the runner looked safe. Slo-mo had everyone in agreement that he made a great call. I guess he can stay to ump another game.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

I have heard several broadcast crews make that point, saying that if players get demoted to the minors if they don't make the right plays, umpires should be demoted to the minors for making bad calls.

Oh...so your sources are broadcasters. Gee, I didn't realize you referring to such high placed authorities. I guess it's just a matter of time then.

[Larry1953]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Oh...so your sources are broadcasters. Gee, I didn't realize you referring to such high placed authorities. I guess it's just a matter of time then.

MrUmpire, I agree with you entirely. I think it has gotten up to the booth that umpires are being graded. I know somebody at high levels uses pitch tracking and there are websites that show graphs of each umpires strike zone an consistency. I haven't seen any grade sheets other than player rankings saying the usual suspects are "the worst". I would imagine that it would be part of union contract negotiations to allow any grading system that might cause an umpire to lose his job at least at the MLB level. For the integrity of the game, it would be a bad idea to make them public.

Still, one wonders why guys like CB Bucknor and Angel Hernandez still have a job.

[MrUmpire]

You really don't have a clue. Stick to what you know something about.

Fanboy statements and sources erode what little credibility you had.

[Larry1953]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

You really don't have a clue. Stick to what you know something about.

Fanboy statements and sources erode what little credibility you had.

MrUmpire, I don't think I have ever maintained I had any "credibility". I express opinions and ask questions and I read rulebooks that the public hS access to. I would be delighted if you could explain how it is that an umpire works his way up to MLB. That is a small and elite fraternity and the average fan does not have a clue what it takes to get there. What does it take to keep a job and stay there? That is not commonly known either.

I don't know why you can't understand that I agree with you.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

MrUmpire, I agree with you entirely. I think it has gotten up to the booth that umpires are being graded. I know somebody at high levels uses pitch tracking and there are websites that show graphs of each umpires strike zone an consistency. I haven't seen any grade sheets other than player rankings saying the usual suspects are "the worst". I would imagine that it would be part of union contract negotiations to allow any grading system that might cause an umpire to lose his job at least at the MLB level. For the integrity of the game, it would be a bad idea to make them public.

Still, one wonders why guys like CB Bucknor and Angel Hernandez still have a job.

Why, because announcers and fanboys like you don't know the rules?

[MikeStrybel]

It seems rather obvious that if a member claims another is unaware of the inner workings of MLB umpiring, he would provide insight to the matter at hand. Step up and do tell.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

5) I just knew it would rile y'all up :-)

That's enough, then.