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Old Sat Sep 10, 2011, 07:14am
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Half Swing Strikes

NCAA Mechanics Change:

In the past, if a right handed batter tried to check his swing, the HP would go for help to the first base umpire in a 3 man system and would always go for help to the third base umpire for a left handed batter.

Effective with the 2012 season, if the HP umpire goes for help on a half-swing with runners on base, he will appeal to the base umpire that is standing on the foul line and will not seek help from a base umpire who is positioned in the middle of the infield. There will be no change with no runners on base.

Fall ball guys are being told to use this now.
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Old Sat Sep 10, 2011, 07:47am
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Okayyyyyy?!?!? So what's the problem with that? Think of a 2 man crew with the BU in A and a LH Batter in the box.
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Old Sat Sep 10, 2011, 08:18am
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Originally Posted by ozzy6900 View Post
Okayyyyyy?!?!? So what's the problem with that? Think of a 2 man crew with the BU in A and a LH Batter in the box.
The mechanics change involves runners on base in 3 man mechanics. That was stated clearly.

If you are working a 2 man crew, are in the A position with runners on and a LH batter up, please sell your gear.

Last edited by MikeStrybel; Sat Sep 10, 2011 at 08:23am.
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Old Sat Sep 10, 2011, 09:48am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStrybel View Post
NCAA Mechanics Change:

In the past, if a right handed batter tried to check his swing, the HP would go for help to the first base umpire in a 3 man system and would always go for help to the third base umpire for a left handed batter.

Effective with the 2012 season, if the HP umpire goes for help on a half-swing with runners on base, he will appeal to the base umpire that is standing on the foul line and will not seek help from a base umpire who is positioned in the middle of the infield. There will be no change with no runners on base.

Fall ball guys are being told to use this now.
So does that also mean that U3 has the option now of position C or B with a runner on 1st base with or without a LH batter at the plate? I believe it is mandatory for U3 to be in the C position when a left-handed batter is at the plate for a possible check swing appeal by U3...
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Old Sat Sep 10, 2011, 10:25am
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Originally Posted by cookie View Post
So does that also mean that U3 has the option now of position C or B with a runner on 1st base with or without a LH batter at the plate? I believe it is mandatory for U3 to be in the C position when a left-handed batter is at the plate for a possible check swing appeal by U3...
No. It just means half-swing appeals will be made to the wing umpire regardless of the batter's handedness. It makes sense. I believe PBUC already uses this mechanic.
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Old Sat Sep 10, 2011, 11:26am
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Originally Posted by dash_riprock View Post
No. It just means half-swing appeals will be made to the wing umpire regardless of the batter's handedness. It makes sense. I believe PBUC already uses this mechanic.
I received a couple PMs about this. To answer them, the memo came from Tom Hiler via Rich Fetcheit. I provided it word for word for collegiate umpires here to see.

The wing umpire has a good angle to see if an attempt to strike the ball was made - from either box. It's not perfect but most of us can see if the barrel head passes the front hip of the batter from those places. Since that is the criteria for detemining a swing, it makes sense to eliminate the call from the umpire restricted to looking at it nearly head on.
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Old Sat Sep 10, 2011, 11:35am
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Originally Posted by MikeStrybel View Post
The mechanics change involves runners on base in 3 man mechanics. That was stated clearly.

If you are working a 2 man crew, are in the A position with runners on and a LH batter up, please sell your gear.
Mike, thats not what hes saying. He is giving you an example, or a think of it this way situation. Hes not implying he would be there in a 2 man crew, just saying it would be like being there for a check on a lefty. Hes emphasizing the "not such a big deal" change.
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Old Sat Sep 10, 2011, 11:53am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStrybel View Post
I received a couple PMs about this. To answer them, the memo came from Tom Hiler via Rich Fetcheit. I provided it word for word for collegiate umpires here to see.

The wing umpire has a good angle to see if an attempt to strike the ball was made - from either box. It's not perfect but most of us can see if the barrel head passes the front hip of the batter from those places. Since that is the criteria for detemining a swing, it makes sense to eliminate the call from the umpire restricted to looking at it nearly head on.
Mike,

I'm not an NCAA umpire, so bear with me.

Is the barrel head passing in front of the hip a rule in NCAA, or a personal rule-of-thumb that you use in making a swing/no swing determination?

I've always been taught that there is no hard and fast point at which an umpire makes this call.

Tim.
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Old Sat Sep 10, 2011, 11:53am
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Originally Posted by umpjong View Post
Mike, thats not what hes saying. He is giving you an example, or a think of it this way situation. Hes not implying he would be there in a 2 man crew, just saying it would be like being there for a check on a lefty. Hes emphasizing the "not such a big deal" change.
Jon, I simply responded to the tone and conflicting response. Hiler's message was pretty clear. I like the change. Take care!
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Old Sat Sep 10, 2011, 12:26pm
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Originally Posted by BigUmp56 View Post
Is the barrel head passing in front of the hip a rule in NCAA, or a personal rule-of-thumb that you use in making a swing/no swing determination?
It's not an NCAA rule, but it is an official guideline.
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Old Sat Sep 10, 2011, 12:31pm
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Originally Posted by cookie View Post
So does that also mean that U3 has the option now of position C or B with a runner on 1st base with or without a LH batter at the plate?
We've had that option for one or two years now.
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Old Sat Sep 10, 2011, 01:10pm
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Originally Posted by dash_riprock View Post
It's not an NCAA rule, but it is an official guideline.
Became a written rule and standard last year. Rule 2 Section 38/Half swing.
Last sentence : The half swing shall be called a strike if the barrel head of the bat passes the batters front hip. (does not apply to a bunt )
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Old Sat Sep 10, 2011, 02:51pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStrybel View Post
The mechanics change involves runners on base in 3 man mechanics. That was stated clearly.

If you are working a 2 man crew, are in the A position with runners on and a LH batter up, please sell your gear.
Wow, what a jerk. You read into his post something he didn't say or imply ... and then tell him that if he thinks what he didn't say he thought, he should hang em up. What is your problem?

What was the purpose of the OP? Just to inform us, or to announce something to us that you disagree with ... that is not clear.
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Old Sat Sep 10, 2011, 02:59pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigUmp56 View Post
Mike,

I'm not an NCAA umpire, so bear with me.

Is the barrel head passing in front of the hip a rule in NCAA, or a personal rule-of-thumb that you use in making a swing/no swing determination?

I've always been taught that there is no hard and fast point at which an umpire makes this call.

Tim.
What he advocates is a recent rule at NCAA, and a good rule of thumb anywhere else. Kind of wish the other rulesets would codify it as such as well. Kind of silly that the other rulesets (older and younger, both) have not written an official rule to define such a crucial situation.
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Old Sat Sep 10, 2011, 03:43pm
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Originally Posted by mbcrowder View Post
What he advocates is a recent rule at NCAA, and a good rule of thumb anywhere else. Kind of wish the other rulesets would codify it as such as well. Kind of silly that the other rulesets (older and younger, both) have not written an official rule to define such a crucial situation.

I hear you, Mike, it might be nice to see a rule in other leagues that would better define what constitutes an "offer."

The other side of that though, is having managers arguing with us that from their vantage point the barrel of the bat didn't go beyond the hip or knee.

I guess that in a way I like being able to simply tell them that "in my judgment there was an attempt", without having to discuss a hard and fast point of no return.

Tim.
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