pulled foot at 1st - getting help

[David Emerling]

Here's the situation I was in the other night in a HS game. I was the BU.

R2, less than 2 outs. I'm in position C. Grounder hit to F5. I stay mostly on the left side of the field because there are several possibilities that can occur over there. F5 spends a little too much time checking the runner and makes a rather hurried, last second throw to 1st. It's a poor throw that makes F3 stretch out quite a bit. Although close, the ball clearly beat the runner. But, from my perspective, it was nearly impossible to see if F3's foot was on the bag.

Before calling "Safe" or "Out", I immediately checked to see if the PU was in a position to see the play. He was. I immediately asked, "Did he pull his foot?" He gave me the signal that he DID - which I promptly followed up with "Safe" signal. The play was close and naturally there was the usual amount of grumbling. I immediately called "Time" to consult with my partner to make sure I understood him correctly since he only signaled me and did not verbalize his response. He assured me that he did, in fact, give the "off the bag" signal. I stuck with my call ... safe ... no big deal.

Later, after the game, as we were heading to the parking lot he seemed rather agitated about that play. "Never come to me from across the field like that again!"

"Huh?"

I tried to explain to him that I had a horrible position for that play and that I thought it was accepted to get help on the play.

"You gotta make that call," he said.

I told him that I *did* make the call. I ruled the batter-runner safe. I only asked him a Yes or No question ... *I* made the Safe/Out call.

I was always taught that on the rare occasions where you get a horrible view of a play like this, that the proper mechanic was::
- 1st make sure that the batter-runner didn't beat the throw. If he beat it, there's no point in determining whether F3 was on the bag or not.
- 2nd make sure that your partner was in position to see the play.
- Make no Safe or Out call.
- Immediately ask "Did he pull his foot?"
- He should simply answer "Yes" or "No"
- Call the batter-runner "Safe" or "Out" accordingly.

I was always taught that if you're going to get help, do it right away, before you make a call and before anybody asks. Don't make your call THEN get help. If you make a call ... stick with it ... and don't go to your partner just because the coach asks you to.

I always thought this mechanic was rather standard in a 2-man system. Agreed, it should be used sparingly - but it can happen.

My question is this: Is this just a perpetuated umpiring mechanic myth or is this a legitimate way of handling this situation? My partner was rather adamant that there is NO SUCH MECHANIC and resented being put in that position.

I checked around the internet and found countless articles addressing this mechanic.

I guess my question is simply this: Is this mechanic valid and accepted in the 2-man system?

Thanks!

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[5 sport ref]

I think you used the right mechanic. Similar mechanic to (did he/she go?) the check swing. I go to clinics every year put on by my association and others and this mechanic is stressed every year as long as it is used sparingly.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

You did it exactly right. Your partner is having a brain fart. He should be trailing the Batter-Runner towards 1st for that very call... and he should be doing it with every batter unless there is a potential play coming to 3rd or home. The PU is surely in the best position to see if F3 pulls off the base towards you to make the catch. If the throw is errant to one side or the other, or up, you should have the best look and can sell the call without his aid.

It is absolutely an imperative mechanic for 2-man. And as such it may not always get discussed in your pre-game... BUT IT SHOULD. I'll bet it does get discussed in your next pre-game.

For your situation the PU should have been half way to 3rd for R2's advance but he is still in great position to see a pulled foot.

Good job! Stick to your guns and discuss it in your pre-game.

[Tim C]

Were we working the game together?

Just kidding.

While I am from the school that you live and die with your own calls AND in over 34 years of umpiring I have never asked for help on a pulled foot or swipe tag at first base I say:

YOUR PLATE UMPIRE WAS FAR OFF BASE (pun). Even though I do not ask for help when I am the BU I am ALWAYS in position to help a partner who asks for that help.

Your partner's attitude needs a firm adjustment.

He may be like me in the "philosophy" that you live with your own calls but he was dead wrong in his discussion position with you.

Tee

[Edited by Tim C on Mar 25th, 2003 at 02:30 PM]

[Rich]

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
You did it exactly right. Your partner is having a brain fart. He should be trailing the Batter-Runner towards 1st for that very call... and he should be doing it with every batter unless there is a potential play coming to 3rd or home. The PU is surely in the best position to see if F3 pulls off the base towards you to make the catch. If the throw is errant to one side or the other, or up, you should have the best look and can sell the call without his aid.

It is absolutely an imperative mechanic for 2-man. And as such it may not always get discussed in your pre-game... BUT IT SHOULD. I'll bet it does get discussed in your next pre-game.

For your situation the PU should have been half way to 3rd for R2's advance but he is still in great position to see a pulled foot.

Good job! Stick to your guns and discuss it in your pre-game.

This is not what is taught by the professional schools. The pro mechanics have the base umpire responsible for both the play at first and any subsequent play at third base.

While many umpires pregame having the PU taking the "backdoor" play at third base, keep in mind that this is not what is taught at the highest levels.

Rich

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Rich,

I haven't worked the highest levels but I can't imagine the PU leaving everything from 1st to 3rd to a single base ump.

Do the pros use 2-man mechanics? I just assumed that they always had at least one ump per base.

If you had this play, what would your mechanics/positioning be? Would you cross the direct line between 1st and 3rd to get good positioning along the 3rd base foul line for the tag play at 3rd?

[Whowefoolin]

What high level of ball use two-man mechanics? Hmmm, college is three, pro is four. Oh, you might have been thinking JuCo or high school.

Anyway, with two out and R2, PU is staying home. Base hit puts play at plate. An infield hit does not give the PU enough time to get up to third to make a call. So BU has all calls on bases.

PU should be watching the touch of third and the progress of the batter going to first. I wouldn't think he is going up the first base line, this might put him out of position for a call at home (if necessary). He can see a tag or pulled foot from first base extension.

How do the higher levels do this? I am to believe with a guy at the "C" position that the PU has a better chance of getting into position than the BU?

[Tim C]

Rich is exactly right on his view of the professional two man mechanic.

This mechanic has changed over the years.

Two schools:

The "Base Umpire" is just that and calls all bases. He leaves the Plate activities for the PU.

The other school incorporates the PU covering third when a "second play" occurs without the ball leaving the infield.

There are several pros and cons for both processes.

PBUC feels that there are inheriant problems in the PU leaving home and they want ONLY their MOST ADVANCED two man crews to use rotations.

When you select either process there are still problems.

[nine01c]

The only thing I have been taught differently is how the question is phrased. Say it so "Yes" means "Out."
So the question would be, "Was his foot on the bag?" instead of "Did he pull his foot?"
There is a subtle difference, but more clarity.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Whowefoolin
What high level of ball use two-man mechanics? Hmmm, college is three, pro is four. Oh, you might have been thinking JuCo or high school.

D-III here uses two-person.

Doesn't the A level of minors use two-person?

Both of those are "high-level" for the vast majority of umpires.

[BJ Moose]

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
He should be trailing the Batter-Runner towards 1st for

Huh? You have plate umpires running up the 1st baseline with Runners at 2nd?? I don't think so.

[jicecone]

Yes, Single A Ball uses two umpires.

I was doing a semi-pro game last year with a official that was in the pro system for a while. Had the same situation arise and got no answer or help what so ever. I looked around, the runner was heading back to the dugout so I called him out and it was accepted. Why argue with an out.

After the game, I discussed this with him and he said that as a BU, you are taught in the pro system to make that call on your own. Never pursued it any further, but I would be interested in why they teach it that way. ?????

[bluezebra]

As usual there are those of you who equate "pro" with Major League. Class A use 2-man, as do the Rookie leagues, etc.

Bob

[Rog]

I would have to agree with Tim C's evaluation of this situation, since normally I will take this call alone more times than not.
But, even if these tired old feet won't keep up with some of these batter's going down that 1st base line is no reason for me not to at least looking up the line and seeing whether or not the 1st baseman has their foot on the bag.
It has been said that a two man crew is suppose to be team, (i.e. partners) for a reason. If they won't help each other when asked, then you may both find yourselves in a sinking ship very quickly.
I thinking I would run this matter by one of your association board members - discretely.....

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Major/minor potato/potato (I can't do the vowel sound variations - you will just have to imagine)

So in two man mechanics where the BU is going to make both the pulled foot call at 1st and the tag play at 3rd, what positioning should he use?

Should he move toward 1st from position C to make the initial call and then toward the 3rd baseline for the tag play at 3rd? There is a pitcher's mound here somewhere to trip over and a thrown ball that could add to the effort. Stand in one spot and pivot?

And No BJ, I wouldn't run to first if there was a runner on 2nd (I personally would run at least half way to 3rd, watching the ball motion so I can see the action at 1st and help with the pulled foot and, be prepared for the play at 3rd. If I had to make a call at 3rd, I would additionally close the gap during the signalling of that call.)

I do feel that watching for a pulled foot is one of my responsibilities as the PU and I do run toward 1st when the ball is hit to the infield and there is no one on 2nd or 3rd.