Phillies protest IR ruling

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by umpjong

Good article on the protest. Looks like this guy got it right from the start.

Ignorance and Misunderstanding of Rules Fuel Phillies Protest Controversy: Fan's Take - MLB - Yahoo! Sports

Thank you for that article. I originally thought that it was incorrect that Joe went to the IR but not knowing the ground rules of that park, I now have to agree with Joe. Simply put, all one of the crew has to suggest is that the ball may have been a HR and the crew must user the IR if there is any doubt.

[Larry1953]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Thank you for that article. I originally thought that it was incorrect that Joe went to the IR but not knowing the ground rules of that park, I now have to agree with Joe. Simply put, all one of the crew has to suggest is that the ball may have been a HR and the crew must user the IR if there is any doubt.

The problem is the crew didn't show any doubt at first and seemed willing to let the play stand until McKeon came out to argue for interference.

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

I used the word "directive".

Except in the first sentence of your post: "Yes, that is what the rule says". So you actually called it both.

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

The mechanic for handling a need to employ Instant Replay does not need to be stated rule. Mechanics are not rules.

Exactly. Are mechanics employed by the umpires protestable?

[umpjong]

Its actually pretty simple unless you dont want to see it.

West asked his crew what they had after he was questioned on what happened with the ball in play (not what happened at a different base). Pretty standard stuff for umpires. Crews dont run to other crew members if they see something, they wait until asked. Plate guy had something different than West and stated that it may even have been a home run. This is when West went to check the replay. He would have been resoundingly second guessed if he had not done what he did. Now if you want to accuse West of lying about his PU then go ahead. Seemed pretty clear after the umpires huddled up he went straight for the replay of that specific play of that specific batted ball.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by umpjong

Its actually pretty simple unless you dont want to see it.

West asked his crew what they had after he was questioned on what happened with the ball in play (not what happened at a different base). Pretty standard stuff for umpires. Crews dont run to other crew members if they see something, they wait until asked. Plate guy had something different than West and stated that it may even have been a home run. This is when West went to check the replay. He would have been resoundingly second guessed if he had not done what he did. Now if you want to accuse West of lying about his PU then go ahead. Seemed pretty clear after the umpires huddled up he went straight for the replay of that specific play of that specific batted ball.

No one is saying he's lying. We're taking him at his word. But changing THIS call based on replay was not within the purview of the Replay "rules". It really is that simple.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

No one is saying he's lying. We're taking him at his word. But changing THIS call based on replay was not within the purview of the Replay "rules". It really is that simple.

This discussion is much like what happened (or would have happened had Al Gore invented the interwebs back then) on the Fisk - Arbruster play. The ruling wasn't consistent with the "rules book" but was correct by interpretation given to umpires (and maybe teams) before the event. Since no one else had the interpretation, there was much handwrining and gnashing of teeth. But, the umpires were right.

[Larry1953]

Confusing mechanics here. Ozzy opines that the crew "must" use replay. Yet the PU needs to remain silent about his view until West asks for it in a conference. And the conference was not convened until after McKeon came out. That just doesn't seem a consistent procedure.

[umpjong]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

No one is saying he's lying. We're taking him at his word. But changing THIS call based on replay was not within the purview of the Replay "rules". It really is that simple.

You do realize that MLB says it is? So yes it is that simple.

[RadioBlue]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

Confusing mechanics here. Ozzy opines that the crew "must" use replay. Yet the PU needs to remain silent about his view until West asks for it in a conference. And the conference was not convened until after McKeon came out. That just doesn't seem a consistent procedure.

The crew didn't have the chance to get together before McKeon came out. He's pretty quick for his age!

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by umpjong

You do realize that MLB says it is? So yes it is that simple.

Just because MLB says it is, doesn't make it so. We have the replay directive. What West did is not allowed by that directive. MLB can say the sky is green as much as they want but it doesn't make it so.

Obviously one of two things is going on here: MLB has issued a new, nonpublic directive that permits more extensive use of replay than we've been lead to believe or West went off the reservation but MLB is unwilling to reign him back in.

MLB has suffered for years from being overly secretive so neither one would surprise me.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by umpjong

You do realize that MLB says it is? So yes it is that simple.

You're funny.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by eastshire

just because mlb says it is, doesn't make it so. We have the replay directive. What west did is not allowed by that directive. Mlb can say the sky is green as much as they want but it doesn't make it so.

Obviously one of two things is going on here: Mlb has issued a new, nonpublic directive that permits more extensive use of replay than we've been lead to believe or west went off the reservation but mlb is unwilling to reign him back in.

Mlb has suffered for years from being overly secretive so neither one would surprise me.

+1

[umpjong]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Just because MLB says it is, doesn't make it so. We have the replay directive. What West did is not allowed by that directive. MLB can say the sky is green as much as they want but it doesn't make it so.

Obviously one of two things is going on here: MLB has issued a new, nonpublic directive that permits more extensive use of replay than we've been lead to believe or West went off the reservation but MLB is unwilling to reign him back in.

MLB has suffered for years from being overly secretive so neither one would surprise me.

What part dont you understand? The PU questioned whether the ball would have been a home run less the fan interference. Thus the replay. Just like the directive states. Even without replay the umpires could have got together and the information from the PU could have changed the call without the replay. Sounds like it might have been ruled a home run with the information provided by PU but with the replay the umpires were able to get it right. Will the directive be re worded? Probably, but give West credit for this one, we all know he needs one once in a while.

Heres a quote from a Philly paper,

It appears those that do study the rules intently found that once a review is being used to determine the boundaries of a home run call, which is what umpire Joe West said was the intent and reasoning behind the replay use, that the umpire can then make an interpretive call on the play if something different appears to be the case. In this situation, West and the league contend that the ruling of the recalled double came after replay revealed fan interference on a ball West deemed catchable by the defender.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

The problem is the crew didn't show any doubt at first and seemed willing to let the play stand until McKeon came out to argue for interference.

So what?

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

Confusing mechanics here. Ozzy opines that the crew "must" use replay. Yet the PU needs to remain silent about his view until West asks for it in a conference. And the conference was not convened until after McKeon came out. That just doesn't seem a consistent procedure.

Spoken by a real "want to be" umpire! Tell me, when was your last baseball game that you really officiated? You blurt out your vomit on this board trying to be "one of the gang" and we all know that you are an "arm chair umpire". You still haven't gotten the picture that things are not cut and dried by the printed rule. Of course, if you really officiated, you would realize this.