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Fri Mar 14, 2003, 11:23pm
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Sat Mar 15, 2003, 12:13am
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Do I have the situation properly diagnosed?
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Sat Mar 15, 2003, 12:22am
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When it comes to awards, Pat, sometimes you just have to follow the rules.
I just got in from doing a Fed game where a batter hit the ball to the plate causing a very high hop to occur up the 1B line about 3 ft. fair. F2 jumps out to glove it while the batter is hightailin' up the 1B line. However, whallah! Where did the ball go? As it came down it apparently came off the catcher's glove and he attempted to pin it to his chest--but he couldn't find it. Nobody else saw it drop to the ground. He spins several times looking for the ball, but it's nowhere to be found......until about 10 seconds later when he realizes that it has gone down his chest protector. The crowd got quite a chuckle from the play. To the objection of the defensive coach, I awarded 2 bases to the batter. It seems like this runner should not get 2 bases as he likely felt lucky in reaching 1B safely. Still, the award is 2 bases---as I suspect the coach has by now found out after looking it up when he got home......LOL. $hit happens......... Freix
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Sat Mar 15, 2003, 12:23am
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No, I'm just not sure yet, and I'm hoping to get some more opinions. All, please speak up: what would you do?
And if I did decide to ignore the correct ruling (two bases), it would be because the one base award seems more just. It would be somewhat easier to sell, though that's more of a bonus and not really a reason. I'm still unsure, so I'm looking for more opinion. P-Sz
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Sat Mar 15, 2003, 08:47am
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You're looking for "opinion." Opinion deals with whether we should attack Iraq, spend more money on education, execute murderers. I'm delighted to hear opinion on subjects where opinion counts. Listen to what you say: "one base award seems more just." Who the heck are you to decide what is just? Listen to what you say: "it would be somewhat easier to sell." As I am wont to say: Amazing! You're not interested in anything other than finding someone who will put his career on the line by supporting you. I'll bow out now. After all these years, Pat, you're still a dilettante.
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Sat Mar 15, 2003, 10:17am
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BR hits a ground ball that lodges into the pocket of the umpires shirt. Would this be a one or two base award?
According to the rule book it could be a one base award because it hit the umpire. However, it could be a two base award because it lodge into his shirt pocket. Make the call! Greg
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Sat Mar 15, 2003, 10:51am
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Freix
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Sat Mar 15, 2003, 11:19am
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This was a useful thread. The play that started it is covered specifically in the rules, and a check of even one of the baseball books on my shelf would have produced the answer. The books also cover my "dropped ball" situation. Two bases. It may not seem "just," but it's not a matter of opinion. After all, we could all list a dozen rules we believe to be unjust.
As far as collecting opinions goes, it reminds me of when I owned a high-end audio store and people would come in and say, "I'm collecting opinions about what the best amplifier is. What do you think?" As if one buys an electronic product (or applies a ruling) based on a poll. The best electronics were often those that most people had never heard of. The correct rulings are often those that most people don't know. Apparently if a runner is lucky enough to deflect a ball into DBT unintentionally, he gets two bases, which after all my years in baseball I did not know. If a runner is returning to 1B (say, on a pickoff) and he slides into the tag and unintentionally kicks the ball into DBT, he gets 3B, even though the throw did not provide the impetus.
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greymule More whiskey—and fresh horses for my men! Roll Tide!
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Sat Mar 15, 2003, 01:08pm
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Greymule: Which rule(s) "specifically covers" the original play?
I have been researching this since Childress's article and still think that the batter-runner unintentionally deflected a legal pitch into DBT resulting in a one-base award. 8.3.3l does not cover this situation as one post argued. Childress is absolutely certain that the rules specify a two-base award, and I accept his interpretation as an "authoritative opinion." But I am curious as to Childress's sources, which he has blithely not cited in his two posted replies.
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Sat Mar 15, 2003, 02:08pm
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OBR 7.05h Approved ruling. "If [a] pitched . . . ball goes through or by the catcher . . . and remains on the playing field, and is subsequently kicked into [DBT], the awarding shall be two bases from position of the runners at the time of the pitch. . . ." Notice that "is kicked" doesn't limit the kick to the fielder.
PBUC 3.8 says the same thing in more detail. J/R 8-B: A subsequent push of a pitch or in-contact throw occurs when such pitch or throw is errant, but would have remained on the playing field, and a fielder subsequently pushes (kicks, deflects, etc.) the ball (itself) into DBT or the ball becomes lodged due to push or deflection. Each runner is awarded two bases beyond his TOP base. J/R goes on to stipulate that the push must be unintentional. I am aware that this does say the fielder kicked the ball. Both PBUC and J/R give many examples. I'm sure it's somewhere in the BRD, too.
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greymule More whiskey—and fresh horses for my men! Roll Tide!
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Sat Mar 15, 2003, 04:39pm
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