The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Baseball
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Fri Aug 12, 2011, 11:11pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Posts: 154
Perception or Reality

Here’s the sitch: Adult mens game; OBR. I’m on the bases in “A” and the Batter hits a ball to F6 who’s deep in the hole. B/R reaches 1st when the throw from F6 to F3 goes wide. B/R makes the turn towards 2nd and then realizes that the wide throw to F3 has hit the fence and bounced directly back to F3 who fields the ball. B/R retreats to 1st, diving back to the bag with dust flying. But the ball is clearly there and F3's glove is down for the easy tag. Should be a “no brainer” out.

However, I’ve got a great angle on the play and it’s clear to me that although F3 has the ball down to make the tag in plenty of time, B/R has slid into 1st avoiding the tag by a couple of inches. The only ones in the whole park who know F3 missed the tag is the B/R and me. I don’t think even F3 believes he missed the tag (but he did).

So here’s the question: Do I call him out (which is what everyone in the park believes is the case) or do I call him safe (which, although correct, is really going to cause a sh*t storm, with both teams thinking I kicked an easy one). Which is more important: perception or reality? I know what I did - What would you do?
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sat Aug 13, 2011, 12:00am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,236
No matter which way you call it, 50% of those present are going to dislike it.

Therefore go with the truth.
__________________
Rich Ives
Different does not equate to wrong
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sat Aug 13, 2011, 12:29am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 17
This is why its important to be in the proper position. Those that want to call what the fans think they see should go sit with them.
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sat Aug 13, 2011, 12:59am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Posts: 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives View Post
No matter which way you call it, 50% of those present are going to dislike it.

Therefore go with the truth.
Actually, that's not the way it will play out. If I call him safe everyone's going to think I kicked it. It's not like calling a banger where it's a really a close call - There, 50% will hate it and 50% will love it. This one appears to be not close at all. 50% will think I don't know my a** from a hole in the ground and the other 50% will think they got a lucky break from a bad call.
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sat Aug 13, 2011, 02:42am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 755
Quote:
Originally Posted by BSUmp16 View Post
If I call him safe everyone's going to think I kicked it. It's not like calling a banger where it's a really a close call - There, 50% will hate it and 50% will love it.
Who gives a flying f**k how many people will be happy or think you kicked it? Call what you see.

Umpiring isn't a democratic election.
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sat Aug 13, 2011, 06:58am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: CT
Posts: 2,439
Maybe next time, you say "SAFE! NO TAG!" or "SAFE! MISSED THE TAG!" that might help. It's similar to when F3 comes off the base, we say, "SAFE! Off the bag!".

Just a thought.
__________________
When in doubt, bang 'em out!
Ozzy
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Sat Aug 13, 2011, 07:20am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: NW Ohio
Posts: 108
Send a message via Yahoo to rcaverly
Quote:
Originally Posted by BSUmp16 View Post
Here’s the sitch: So here’s the question: Which is more important: perception or reality? I know what I did - What would you do?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BSUmp16 View Post
50% will think I don't know my a** from a hole in the ground and the other 50% will think they got a lucky break from a bad call.
My perception of the OP is you want to know how others might think of you, which you suspect may conflict with how you think of yourself, which is your ego.

My perception is taken from the fact that you didn’t give your ruling in the OP; you want others to respond first. I suspect that is what you wanted to happen during the game before you made your call. Also, you have “boxed yourself in” to a lose-lose scenario by yourself perceiving that there are two, and only two, outcomes in which others would respond, both being detrimental to your ego:
1. “50% will think [you] don't know [your] a** from a hole in the ground; and,
2. “[T]he other 50% will think they got a lucky break from a bad call.”

As yawetag and customshirts advise and encourage, officials should call the game in a way that they will get what it is they want out of the game.
1. More games, then call it the way your assignor says;
2. Happy fans on the 3d base side, then call it the way the home team says;
3. Happy fans on the 1st base side, then call it the way the visitors say;
4. Happy defense, then the BR is out;
5. Happy offense, then the BR is safe;
6. Happy play-by-play announcers, then the way the replay camera operators have it;
7. Happy color commentators; forget about it, they think it’s our fault that they’re not still out there;
8. Good night’s sleep, then call it your way.
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sat Aug 13, 2011, 11:27am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Bedford, Texas
Posts: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by BSUmp16 View Post
Here’s the sitch: Adult mens game; OBR. I’m on the bases in “A” and the Batter hits a ball to F6 who’s deep in the hole. B/R reaches 1st when the throw from F6 to F3 goes wide. B/R makes the turn towards 2nd and then realizes that the wide throw to F3 has hit the fence and bounced directly back to F3 who fields the ball. B/R retreats to 1st, diving back to the bag with dust flying. But the ball is clearly there and F3's glove is down for the easy tag. Should be a “no brainer” out.

However, I’ve got a great angle on the play and it’s clear to me that although F3 has the ball down to make the tag in plenty of time, B/R has slid into 1st avoiding the tag by a couple of inches. The only ones in the whole park who know F3 missed the tag is the B/R and me. I don’t think even F3 believes he missed the tag (but he did).

So here’s the question: Do I call him out (which is what everyone in the park believes is the case) or do I call him safe (which, although correct, is really going to cause a sh*t storm, with both teams thinking I kicked an easy one). Which is more important: perception or reality? I know what I did - What would you do?
Beyond any shadow of doubt, I would have an out. C'mon. this is an easy one!

Mike C
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Sat Aug 13, 2011, 11:38am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 480
If you want to work a ballgame and have ALL the fans like you, sell peanuts. If you want to work a game and leave with the satisfaction of knowing that you were in proper position to make the correct call and properly educated as to the rules of the game, be an umpire and make the CORRECT call.

So, in this case, call the runner safe and then if the defensive coach comes out to argue, very briefly explain to him that his F3 missed the tag and how he missed the tag. AS OZZY said, an immediate "SAFE, MISSED THE TAG!" would go a long way toward preventing any "sh*t storm".

Last edited by rbmartin; Sat Aug 13, 2011 at 11:43am. Reason: added thought
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Sat Aug 13, 2011, 11:57am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 755
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbmartin View Post
if you want to work a ballgame and have all the fans like you, sell beer.
ftfy.
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Sat Aug 13, 2011, 02:17pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 915
On a play where there are 18 people on the field plus your partner expecting the call to go a certain way you better have a good reason why the call defied expectations. A safe "no tag" is one way. On the other hand working your average adult baseball when outs are hard to come by you might want to get this out while you can. Just a thought
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Sat Aug 13, 2011, 08:02pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,716
Quote:
Originally Posted by yawetag View Post
Who gives a flying f**k how many people will be happy or think you kicked it? Call what you see.

Umpiring isn't a democratic election.
If your a politician or media bimbo you would probably take a poll.

If your gonna be an umpire, take Yawetag's advise.
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Sat Aug 13, 2011, 11:59pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,236
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfwump View Post
Beyond any shadow of doubt, I would have an out. C'mon. this is an easy one!

Mike C
Count the votes.
__________________
Rich Ives
Different does not equate to wrong
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Sun Aug 14, 2011, 09:10am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Northwest suburbs of Chicago
Posts: 645
Another expected call minion.

Call what you see, not what others want you to see. It is the least you can do to be considered impartial.
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Sun Aug 14, 2011, 09:34am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,458
If you're going to make the correct call, on a play like this, you've got to sell it like Oz and Mr. Martin have said. Good umpires learn how to sell a call, when it's not the "expected" one. Plus, on a really close one, you've got to sell the Hell out of it.

Last edited by kylejt; Sun Aug 14, 2011 at 09:37am.
Closed Thread

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hypothetical Becomes Reality 26 Year Gap Basketball 1 Thu Jan 28, 2010 06:48pm
perception sometimes is not reality fullor30 Basketball 6 Wed Jan 14, 2009 05:07pm
One man's perception of the game Mark Padgett Basketball 7 Wed Jan 02, 2008 04:44pm
Perception ChuckElias Basketball 23 Tue May 04, 2004 12:58pm
Reality Check Kelvin green Basketball 29 Tue May 04, 2004 12:03pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:04am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1