Perception or Reality

[BSUmp16]

Originally Posted by jicecone

No Mike this is what I said:

"Mike C, I don't know a single thing about your officiating but when the player is safe, he is safe."

What you wrote is what you "PERCEIVED". Which is exactly how you came to the conclusion that the runner was out, even though it was clearly stated that he wasn't. I will let you do the math.

No jicecone, here is what you said: "Maybe your the type that is there to impress someone and looking to be accepted by the boys. Maybe your an ex player from the league and have this need to be everyone's friend, still and never piss off any of your buddies."

If you're willing to make those kinds of judgment calls, Maybe your the type who jumps to conclusions. Maybe you just like to be arrogant. Maybe you lack confidence and have this need to try to sound authoritative.

I don't know a thing about you or your officiating, but if I put the "maybe's" in front of my name-calling I can try to put the blame back on you when you (rightly) call me on it.

[UmpTTS43]

Out is the correct and accepted call.

[LMan]

Call what you see, sell what you call.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by BSUmp16

No jicecone, here is what you said: "Maybe your the type that is there to impress someone and looking to be accepted by the boys. Maybe your an ex player from the league and have this need to be everyone's friend, still and never piss off any of your buddies."

If you're willing to make those kinds of judgment calls, Maybe your the type who jumps to conclusions. Maybe you just like to be arrogant. Maybe you lack confidence and have this need to try to sound authoritative.

I don't know a thing about you or your officiating, but if I put the "maybe's" in front of my name-calling I can try to put the blame back on you when you (rightly) call me on it.

This isn't a maybe--both you and Mike have reading comprehension issues. There was no judging occurring on jicecone's part.

I will say it though--if you knowingly make an incorrect call just because "everyone else thinks it is," you are a horse**** umpire who has no clue of logic. The reason the runner looked at you was because he knew you were full of ****, and until you actually make the call, you have no clue who else knows what reality is.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by BSUmp16

No jicecone, here is what you said: "Maybe your the type that is there to impress someone and looking to be accepted by the boys. Maybe your an ex player from the league and have this need to be everyone's friend, still and never piss off any of your buddies."

If you're willing to make those kinds of judgment calls, Maybe your the type who jumps to conclusions. Maybe you just like to be arrogant. Maybe you lack confidence and have this need to try to sound authoritative.

I don't know a thing about you or your officiating, but if I put the "maybe's" in front of my name-calling I can try to put the blame back on you when you (rightly) call me on it.

Clever edifiication BSUmp16, the runner is still safe.

Have a good day!

[BSUmp16]

Originally Posted by jicecone

Clever edifiication BSUmp16, the runner is still safe.

Have a good day!

Yeah - I think we've about beat this to death (but the score book has him as out). Thanks. You have a good day too. On to the next topic.

[Larry1953]

In concept, the OP is similar to the safe call in the Pirates-Braves marathon, except even the runner thought he was out. And the PU did a terrible job selling his call. Same metaphysical conundrum though.

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by dfwump

Guys please re-read this carefully, put yourself in the situation as described and tell me truthfully, honestly, what would be your call. I have clearly stated what mine would be. And IMHO its a no-brainer.

Mike C

Many of us did. It is a no brainer, if you are umpiring to avoid controversy then call him as others expect and do it from a LazyBoy in the stands. If you know a runner is safe and you call him out simply because he should have been (under other circumstances) then you are doing a disservice to the profession. Contemporary umpiring maintains a desire to get the call right even of it looks bad from afar.

[UmpTTS43]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Many of us did. It is a no brainer, if you are umpiring to avoid controversy then call him as others expect and do it from a LazyBoy in the stands. If you know a runner is safe and you call him out simply because he should have been (under other circumstances) then you are doing a disservice to the profession. Contemporary umpiring maintains a desire to get the call right even of it looks bad from afar.

That's some of the funniest stuff I've read in a long time. You must go through quite a bit of hand sanitizer from picking up the ****ty end of the stick all of the time.

There are times when the accepted call is the correct call ie. neighborhood play, strike zone. An experienced umpire knows this. I would have thought you would have known this as well.

Unless there are 42 different cameras with different angles, you should make the call that is obvious to everyone, even the grandmother whos grandson just got called out.

Being a credible umpire is more than calling balls/strikes, outs/safes.

[dfwump]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Many of us did. It is a no brainer, if you are umpiring to avoid controversy then call him as others expect and do it from a LazyBoy in the stands. If you know a runner is safe and you call him out simply because he should have been (under other circumstances) then you are doing a disservice to the profession. Contemporary umpiring maintains a desire to get the call right even of it looks bad from afar.

Mike ,

Oh please tell me what makes you the expert on "contemporary umpiring". What does that even mean? I think I missed that topic at my last clinic.

Mike C.

[dfwump]

Originally Posted by Matt

This isn't a maybe--both you and Mike have reading comprehension issues. There was no judging occurring on jicecone's part.

I will say it though--if you knowingly make an incorrect call just because "everyone else thinks it is," you are a horse**** umpire who has no clue of logic. The reason the runner looked at you was because he knew you were full of ****, and until you actually make the call, you have no clue who else knows what reality is.

Matt,

Dont get in a lather here. I've never knowingly make an incorrect call, but there are times I make the "expected" call. And so have all of you in the right circumstance. If you say you never have, then you hav'nt called for very long, or you are lying.

Mike C

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by UmpTTS43

That's some of the funniest stuff I've read in a long time. You must go through quite a bit of hand sanitizer from picking up the ****ty end of the stick all of the time.

There are times when the accepted call is the correct call ie. neighborhood play, strike zone. An experienced umpire knows this. I would have thought you would have known this as well.

Unless there are 42 different cameras with different angles, you should make the call that is obvious to everyone, even the grandmother whos grandson just got called out.

Being a credible umpire is more than calling balls/strikes, outs/safes.

You're living in the wrong time period. "Expected" has been shot and is writhing in its death throes.

And your next to last sentence is incredible - call it the "expected" way unless there is going to be proof of the correct way? Lie unless someone can prove you're lying? I guess you failed your ethics class - or forgot its lessons.

[TussAgee11]

Umpiring is more than just spotting. Its learning to deal with variables that are always changing to get as much information as possible to get the call right. Knowing what should have happened or probably happened or expected to happen can prove useful to an experienced umpire at the right time when he realizes the limitations his position or responsibilities are placing on him.

At the lower levels, call what you see so you realize you have the balls to do this job.

When you move up, realize that at times you just have to go with the expected call because you realize your eyes may have just lied to you because of your position, the play development, etc.

[UmpTTS43]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

You're living in the wrong time period. "Expected" has been shot and is writhing in its death throes.

And your next to last sentence is incredible - call it the "expected" way unless there is going to be proof of the correct way? Lie unless someone can prove you're lying? I guess you failed your ethics class - or forgot its lessons.

You can choose to believe whatever you think, however, in big boy ball, the "right" call is not necessarily the "correct" call. Perception is reality whether you like it or not. If everyone percieves you missed the call, then you missed the call period. You know it's true. Call the curve that hits the hollow of the knee and bounces in the dirt or call R1 safe at second when F6 catches the ball after the touch and see how long your services will be needed. Same is true when the fielder has ball in glove parked in front of the bag waiting on runner to arrive. If the runner slides directly into the base he is out no matter if the tag is applied or not. If you call the runner safe when the tag is missed by two inches, EVERYONE will know you missed it and you will lose all current and future credibility.

Sometimes you have to take off your training wheels, put on your big boy pants and become an actual umpire.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by UmpTTS43

You can choose to believe whatever you think, however, in big boy ball, the "right" call is not necessarily the "correct" call. Perception is reality whether you like it or not. If everyone percieves you missed the call, then you missed the call period. You know it's true. Call the curve that hits the hollow of the knee and bounces in the dirt or call R1 safe at second when F6 catches the ball after the touch and see how long your services will be needed. Same is true when the fielder has ball in glove parked in front of the bag waiting on runner to arrive. If the runner slides directly into the base he is out no matter if the tag is applied or not. If you call the runner safe when the tag is missed by two inches, EVERYONE will know you missed it and you will lose all current and future credibility.

Sometimes you have to take off your training wheels, put on your big boy pants and become an actual umpire.

Work less games. Watch more TV. See the replays. Listen to the criticism for missed calls. See the missed call played over and over on ESPN. Heck, even AAA games get rehashed on air at the local levels caus they're on TV now. Then read more criticism here and in the paper. Learn. Mom has her video camera at the HS games. Some have them at LL games. You can't escape. Things have changed.

"Expected" has been shot. It's writhing in its death throes. Deal with it.