Hit by pitch

[wentdl]

Hope I get lots of umpires input here. How much wiggle do you give to a batter hit by pitch out of strike zone when he undeniably does not make any effort to avoid ball, or turns a leg or upper arm albeit slightly into the pitch.Even though batter is entitled to the box a "reasonable effort" should be made to avoid pitch should it not.

[David B]

Originally Posted by wentdl

Hope I get lots of umpires input here. How much wiggle do you give to a batter hit by pitch out of strike zone when he undeniably does not make any effort to avoid ball, or turns a leg or upper arm albeit slightly into the pitch.Even though batter is entitled to the box a "reasonable effort" should be made to avoid pitch should it not.

Not the answer you might want, but I would say it depends ...

Depends on the age of the kids involved,
Depends on what type of pitch it was etc.,

There are other criteria I would use, but pitch out of the zone, hits batter, he's pretty much getting first base unless he does something unusual which I think would be considered a deliberate attempt to get hit by the ball.


Thanks
David

[briancurtin]

Originally Posted by wentdl

Hope I get lots of umpires input here. How much wiggle do you give to a batter hit by pitch out of strike zone when he undeniably does not make any effort to avoid ball, or turns a leg or upper arm albeit slightly into the pitch.Even though batter is entitled to the box a "reasonable effort" should be made to avoid pitch should it not.

In NCAA, the batter owns the box - he can freeze and just take the pitch. OBR doesn't allow that by the book - he has to make an attempt to not get hit, and that's different than turning and taking it in a better place.

However, this all happens so fast. The only time I've called batters back to the box is when they reach out to get hit.

[stratref]

The only time I bring a batter back to the box is one of two scenarios:
1) (Except NCAA rules) A batter looks a pitch into his body/arm. I am talking about tracking pitch and seeing it the whole way and not even flinching. (This is ok in NCAA as long as contact occurs in the batters box.)
2) (All Rule sets) A batter sticking out an arm or leg or other part of his body to get hit.

I had each type happen once this year, the first the batter understood that just taking the 40ish MPH fastball (38+ league) he had to at least flinch or I couldn't give him first, he walked on the next pitch any way.

The second one a batter ducked on an inside pitch but as he ducked he stuck his front elbow out and got hit right on the elbow. If he was the type to crowd the plate I would have had a strike but as he stood back from the plate that elbow was still 6+ inches off the plate so I just brought him back. I got less than 5 seconds of flack from the coach, and the batter never complained, he knew what was going on.

Jasper

[etn_ump]

All ages I work, 16 and up, unless the batter does something to cause himself to be hit and if the ball is in the box, he is going to first.

I don't reward the pitcher for throwing in the batter's box.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by wentdl

Hope I get lots of umpires input here. How much wiggle do you give to a batter hit by pitch out of strike zone when he undeniably does not make any effort to avoid ball, or turns a leg or upper arm albeit slightly into the pitch.Even though batter is entitled to the box a "reasonable effort" should be made to avoid pitch should it not.

If the batter has a chance to move, then he needs to do so -- he can't "allow" himself to get hit. If he doesn't have a chance to move (including "freezing" on an inside fastball), then he doesn't have to move.

[Dave Reed]

Originally Posted by stratref

The only time I bring a batter back to the box is one of two scenarios:
1) (Except NCAA rules) A batter looks a pitch into his body/arm. I am talking about tracking pitch and seeing it the whole way and not even flinching. (This is ok in NCAA as long as contact occurs in the batters box.)
.......

The NCAA rules use the term "freezes". It is not OK to track a slow pitch into the batters box without attempting to move, according to NCAA rule 8-2d(2) and the associated AR.

I'm well aware that many umpires award first base whenever a non-swinging batter is hit inside the box, regardless of whether the game is being played in NCAA or any other ruleset. That's fine, and maybe the rules should be written that way, but even the NCAA rules don't mandate an award when the batter is struck inside the box.

[mrm21711]

Although not related to the OP, another great "commentary" regarding an HBP situation.

Baseball Video Highlights & Clips | SD@LAD: Johnson awarded first upon umpire inspection - Video | MLB.com: Multimedia

As usual, not sure what Angel was doing here either.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by mrm21711

Although not related to the OP, another great "commentary" regarding an HBP situation.

Baseball Video Highlights & Clips | SD@LAD: Johnson awarded first upon umpire inspection - Video | MLB.com: Multimedia

As usual, not sure what Angel was doing here either.

As usual, commentators don't have a clue.

After three replays they say, "Its clear that it hit him", then "when your bunting, you hand is part of the bat".

I have this theory in life that 60 - 75% of the public is stupid. Which means there are some VERY STUPID people out there and some not so stupid. Therefore we can establish an average.

Guess what group the majority of Sports Announcers fit in ?

[Larry1953]

Well, they almost got it..."When you're swinging or trying to bunt at it..." but then they had to go with THAPOTB. So I guess that means that a ball "hit" fair in that manner would be in play :-(.

But they got it right when they said "Uh-oh, here comes Angel Hernandez. We've gone 8 innings without anything unusual involving him, what now?"

I guess he needed to play the part of a doubting Thomas and see the hand himself instead of just letting the actions of the player make the call.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Mark Grant is good at doing umpire impersonations and impressions, but is somewhat clueless on the rules. Next time I see him (he only lives a couple miles from me and I know where to find him) I am going to tell him to stop spreading the biggest myth in baseball. Dick Enberg should know better, but alas, doesn't.

[Larry1953]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Mark Grant is good at doing umpire impersonations and impressions, but is somewhat clueless on the rules. Next time I see him (he only lives a couple miles from me and I know where to find him) I am going to tell him to stop spreading the biggest myth in baseball. Dick Enberg should know better, but alas, doesn't.

Steve, I certainly hope you do. Another good suggestion: have them get a sponsor like White-out or even just MLB to feature one myth of baseball rules per game. There are lists all over the Internet and they are usually 40 or more long. It could be framed as an Ask the Umpire segment too. The point is it would be a way to subject to ridicule statements like "The hands are part of the bat" and "the ball is foul if it hits the plate", etc, etc. Then maybe the announcers will stop repeating them.

[Larry1953]

I've got just the sponsor: get some cell phone carrier to do a "You Make the Call" segment - fewer dropped/missed calls and whatnot :-)

[Larry1953]

Regarding the OP:

YouTube - ‪Nyjer Morgan gets hit by pitch but umpire blows the call.‬‏

I don't agree with Davidson's call on Njer Morgan. That said, it seems you don't see the Biggio/Bonds elbow armor as much anymore now that those guys retired. I think if a batter gets hit in the torso or head, he needs to do something really out of the ordinary other than just turning his shoulder in to avoid getting hit on the forearm or hand which might break a bone.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Dave Reed

The NCAA rules use the term "freezes". It is not OK to track a slow pitch into the batters box without attempting to move, according to NCAA rule 8-2d(2) and the associated AR.

I'm well aware that many umpires award first base whenever a non-swinging batter is hit inside the box, regardless of whether the game is being played in NCAA or any other ruleset. That's fine, and maybe the rules should be written that way, but even the NCAA rules don't mandate an award when the batter is struck inside the box.

The reason is very simple - the pitch does not belong in the batter's box.