MLB umpire suspended

[gsf23]

I believe that he made a mistake in what he saidand that it should not have been said. Maybe I'm just a little naive but, when did calling someone stupid equate to a racial slur? Would there have been as much pub on this if Ms. Davis was irish and he called her a stupid Irish B@!ch? Or how about a stupid catholic b@$ch?

[Rita C]

You are correct, Garth. That does have all the hatred, sexual implications, and capability to hurt and demean.

Using her ethnic origin in conjunction gave no room for doubt. Having been in an angry situation in which my ethnic origin was included, I can tell you that it does matter. It makes it that much more personal. A ten day suspension was insufficient punishment.

Rita

[Edited by Rita C on Feb 3rd, 2003 at 11:48 AM]

[Marty Rogers]

Originally posted by gsf23
I believe that he made a mistake in what he saidand that it should not have been said. Maybe I'm just a little naive but, when did calling someone stupid equate to a racial slur? Would there have been as much pub on this if Ms. Davis was irish and he called her a stupid Irish B@!ch? Or how about a stupid catholic b@$ch?

Did you read the article? He didn't just call her "stupid."
Any yes, it would have been just as bad had he used any other ethnic or religious reference.

[gsf23]

Yes I read the article and I know what all he said. My question though is not whether you think it would have been as bad. My question was would it have gotten a USA Today article and all the talk show pub had it been "stupid irish b**ch" or "stupid catholic b**ch". Personally I think it would have been just as bad, but I don't think the publicity would have been the same. That's what I was asking.

[spots101]

Believe it or not the origin of the word "fag" short for "faggot" derived back in Europe during the days of Witchcraft and Witch-hunts.

Back in those days men who stood up for women were burned right along with them. Homosexual men were burned to death as well. However, these men were tied up and placed at the feet of the witches, their bodies used as "faggots" to kindle the flames.

Webster defines "faggot" as a bundle of twigs or sticks. Then there is the more popular English version of the word fag which means a cigarette.

[AndyO]

Today, Mark Hirchbeck was also suspended ... make that yesterday.

He was suspended for using "Inappropriate Lanuage" with an MLB executive.

Andy

[Alligator Bag]

That was John Hirschbeck according to Yahoo sports. Wonder what Richie Phillips is doing right now?

[Edited by Alligator Bag on Feb 6th, 2003 at 11:14 PM]

[DownTownTonyBrown]

This ought to get everyone excited....

You people are too sensitive. PERIOD. You and the news media CREATE the sensational part of these situations.

Is Cathy Davis of the Jewish religion? If yes, then why would she be offended? If no, then obviously Froemming was using the common, somewhat vulgar meaning of the word - namely CHEAP - jew someone down to a lower price. That definition is used all of the time. I'm sure he didn't capitalize the word when he said it - the newspaper dude did that. It wasn't even a public comment - he thought the phone had been hung up.

Froemming had just gotten the short end of making travel arrangements - he probably just got a couple of hundred dollars less for his travel to Japan than if the association had paid him and he made his own arrangements.

The use of the other vulgar word just means that he lost the argument... to a woman... and the money.

I don't like his comment at all. And it is not one that I would ever make, but you people and the news media sure seem to be making a lot more of it than Froemming intended.

Ten days isn't enough??! Maybe we should castrate him - there was a lot of that during the Holocaust. Stand him on some faggots and burn him! None of those things were right then and they wouldn't be right now... as a group you are over-reacting.

Go ahead call me a Christian... oh, oh, oh, do it again. Do it again. I am one.

Call me a fag/SOB. OOOOOooo in the right context that might piss me off but it doesn't hurt because I'm not either one.

Life is what you make of it folks and I feel you people are tilting windmills.

[greymule]

Well, Downtown, I'm glad somebody finally said it. People are way too sensitive these days. Of course, a person who walks around looking to be offended undoubtedly soon will be.

Remember the saying, "Don't make a federal case out of it"? Today, people literally create federal cases when they feel offended because somebody used politically incorrect terminology.

College students are brought up on disciplinary charges for voicing politically incorrect opinions in class.

Company employees are sent to sensitivity classes for telling an ethnic joke.

American flags have been banned from people's desks—in America—because "somebody might be offended."

A Catholic hospital was asked to remove the large cross on the side of its building because Muslims might not like having to see it.

You're right, Downtown. People should lighten up.

NEWS FLASH: Now I see that two people are suing an airline because the flight attendant said, "Eenie, Meenie, Mynie, Moe, pick a seat, we gotta go"! You see, that saying derives from a racist rhyme that was made up in the 19th century, so the people suffered humiliation and trauma and psychological distress—at least several million dollars' worth.

Well, Downtown, people aren't going to lighten up when they can get rich by being offended.

[Edited by greymule on Feb 10th, 2003 at 06:27 PM]

[AndyO]

I agree with both of you.

People do need to lighten up.

Andy

[bluezebra]

Maybe if some of you who don't see anything disgusting about Froemming's, and other bigots', remarks, had your grandmother spit on because she was Jewish. Or the Nazi sympathizer German kid who lived across the street call you a "Dirty Jew" in 1944. Or listen to crap like this your entire childhood. Or be turned down for jobs because of your religion, race, or national background.

Maybe your tune would change if you had to hear the Catholic Church (until a few years ago), refer to us as "The perfidious Jews", and have your beliefs insulted every day. Maybe, just maybe, you might feel what we feel when we hear, or read, this hate-filled garbage day-in and day-out.

It's easy to ignore when it happens to someone else.

Bob

[Tim C]

As Bob (BlueZebra) will attest I am very offensive in how I talk and treat others.

I was offended by what Froemming said.

We deal with a changing world. What was acceptable in the 60's doesn't pass now. And we will NEVER go backwards.

So make all the posts you want about the "good old days" and the irritation of a PC world,but guys it is here, and it is not going to leave.

I am probably most offended that Brice was dumb enough to let it get to the recorder.

Good post Bob.

Tee

[greymule]

I think that someone who is called a dirty Jew should naturally and properly be offended—and a lot more. No one could seriously deny that the speaker intended serious insult. In fact, the courts have ruled such remarks to be "fighting words" tantamount to assault.

However, I think that someone who gets upset upon hearing a harmless rhyme that happened to have racist roots a century ago has one great big chip on her shoulder.

For those of you defending PC idiocy, how would you like to be forced to apologize to your college class for having used the phrase "Black Friday" to refer to a day when the stock market took a deep fall? PC here to stay? I certainly hope not.

[GarthB]

Greymule opined:

"College students are brought up on disciplinary charges for voicing politically incorrect opinions in class."

Good.

"Company employees are sent to sensitivity classes for telling an ethnic joke."

Appropriate.

"American flags have been banned from people's desks—in America—because "somebody might be offended."

Citation, please.

"A Catholic hospital was asked to remove the large cross on the side of its building because Muslims might not like having to see it."

Citation, please.

"You're right, Downtown. People should lighten up."

Yeah! What happened to the good ol' days when we could put on black face and make fun everyone who was different from us?


"NEWS FLASH: Now I see that two people are suing an airline because the flight attendant said, "Eenie, Meenie, Mynie, Moe, pick a seat, we gotta go"! You see, that saying derives from a racist rhyme that was made up in the 19th century, so the people suffered humiliation and trauma and psychological distress—at least several million dollars' worth."

Citation, please.


It's easy to mix urban myths with appeals for the days of yore. Easy, but insulting to most everyone with an IQ beyond their waist size.

[greymule]

Citation for airline story:

http://www.msnbc.com/local/ksnt/m270363.asp?cp1=1

The banning of American flags was all over the news about a month ago. The company, under great pressure, eventually reversed itself and allowed Americans to display the flag of their country on their desks.

The hospital cross flap occurred about two years ago (before 9/11 actually). I don't record a citation for every news story I see, but this and similar outrages have been dutifully reported.

As for the student who had to apologize for using the phrase "Black Friday," I know the guy personally. He is now a Presbyterian minister. This incident, along with thousands of other cases of PC bullying, didn't make the papers.

I said: "College students are brought up on disciplinary charges for voicing politically incorrect opinions in class."

To that, Garth replied, "Good."

Garth, do you actually think it's good that someone is brought up on charges for voicing his opinion?

It is a common tactic of pro-PC types to insist that anyone who disagrees with them is a hater, a Nazi, a Klansman, and so forth. People without an intellectual argument to make usually do end up resorting to name-calling.