Home plate appeal costs HS Conn team Championship.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

I would rather emulate the best than accept the actions of those who violate ethics and rules.

I hope you realize how strong of a statement that actually is.

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by Welpe

I hope you realize how strong of a statement that actually is.

I do. This was a HS game. Read the NFHS Code of Ethics in the current rule book - umpires who give one team an advantage over another have violated that covenant and displayed poor integrity and ethics. Again, I offer the play involving an umpire telling a defensive player to warn the pitcher that he will be called for a balk unless he changes his delivery. That play has been mentioned numerous times as acceptable.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Again, I offer the play involving an umpire telling a defensive player to warn the pitcher that he will be called for a balk unless he changes his delivery. That play has been mentioned numerous times as acceptable.

If you're saying the pitcher balked and was told "If you do it again, I'll call it", I agree. Just call it the first time.

I'm not sure that's what everyone else is saying.

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

If you're saying the pitcher balked and was told "If you do it again, I'll call it", I agree. Just call it the first time.

I'm not sure that's what everyone else is saying.

Bob, another member wrote that he has no problem telling the catcher to go talk to the pitcher about stopping. I believe the phrase used was 'quietly tell him to pause better" or something similar. Several members agreed. I related the story of someone we both have worked with who was caught telling the shortstop the same thing. (The SS stayed in his position and said something like, "Hey, he said he's going to balk you if you don't stop better than that.") the only thing it prevented was laughter from the offensive coach. He should have just caused the balk. If you see a poor stop, call it, don't coach. End of story.

Getting back to the original play, years ago we were told to make sure players didn't step into the dirt area around home plate in celebration - live or dead didn't matter. I offered a play where I prevented them from doing so and the HC chewed me out for preventing interference or at the very least, a possible ejection for leaving the dugout. While I understand and you know you are aware of how I umpire, I agree with the coach and current thinking of the better umpires in the game. Just call what you see and work hard to make certain it is correct. Interaction between players is limited to pleasantries and essential communication. Now, I readily admit that I have broken the rule and done things that I now find to be more trouble than helpful. I still make mistakes but work much harder to make certain they are only noticeable to my peers, not the players. Yes, I still say things on the field I shouldn't and often regret doing so. In the end, it is far better to disappear out there. You don't do that by helping a team cheat and that is what coaching while officiating is.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

You don't do that by helping a team cheat and that is what coaching while officiating is.

while all of us will draw the line at a different point, there is a difference between coaching and preventive officiating.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Bob, another member wrote that he has no problem telling the catcher to go talk to the pitcher about stopping. I believe the phrase used was 'quietly tell him to pause better" or something similar. Several members agreed. I related the story of someone we both have worked with who was caught telling the shortstop the same thing. (The SS stayed in his position and said something like, "Hey, he said he's going to balk you if you don't stop better than that.") the only thing it prevented was laughter from the offensive coach. He should have just caused the balk. If you see a poor stop, call it, don't coach. End of story.

Reading is fundamental. Go back and re-read what that member wrote. He wasn't talking about not calling balks; he was talking about warning the pitcher when he's getting close but not quite violating the rules.

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Reading is fundamental. Go back and re-read what that member wrote. He wasn't talking about not calling balks; he was talking about warning the pitcher when he's getting close but not quite violating the rules.

Your need to insult is sad. I can have an opinion without needing to demean the other. I read the posts just fine.

From Tim -
Quietly reminding a pitcher that he needs to "pause better" when you are a base umpire, telling post men in basketball to quit pushing on each other while trying to gain position, or assiting a wide reciever to line up legally in a football game are not coaching.

From RichMSN - I am just a little ole' HS official, but I am happy to send a catcher out to talk to a pitcher (I'll call a balk when the pitcher balks, but when he's close but not balking, it hurts nobody to have the catcher remind him that he's close) or talk to post players to let them know I'm there. What I'm saying is that I agree completely.

Tim and RichMSN both spoke about warning a pitcher after seeing him do something that you know isn't right. (Otherwise, you are simply an OOO.) As I and many others here have stated before, it ether is a balk or it isn't. If it isn't and you feel the need to tell a player to do something to avoid balking then you are coaching. If you don't have the fortitude to call the balk then hang up the gear. Yes, we all miss balks and then stew over the reality of it. Warning a guy after that is just as awful. Call what you see. Let the coaches do their job.

I find it particularly funny that a number of threads involve members who insist that they aren't paid to coach and bemoan leagues that require explanations for balks, INT, OBS, etc. Now, they are silent. Hmmmm.

Yes Bob, we all have tolerances for what is ethical and not. As with many things in umpiring, acceptable behavior is evolving. At one time, you could argue just as vehemently as the antagonist. At one time, you could simply make your call and ignore the call for getting assistance. Old school, unwritten rules are slowly falling away from upper level baseball. You won't see a CWS umpire pick and choose which rules are worthy of enforcement. Those are the guys I emulate.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Your need to insult is sad. I can have an opinion without needing to demean the other. I read the posts just fine.

Not a need so much as a desire. I normally censor myself, but didn't bother this time.

[Altor]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

I can have an opinion without needing to demean the other.

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Maybe it isn't too late for your parents to get a refund from your reading teachers.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Your need to insult is sad.

Ditto.

I can have an opinion without needing to demean the other.

Can you let us know when that's going to start?

[LilLeaguer]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Your need to insult is sad. I can have an opinion without needing to demean the other. I read the posts just fine.

Tim and RichMSN both spoke about warning a pitcher after seeing him do something that you know isn't right. (Otherwise, you are simply an OOO.) As I and many others here have stated before, it ether is a balk or it isn't. If it isn't and you feel the need to tell a player to do something to avoid balking then you are coaching. If you don't have the fortitude to call the balk then hang up the gear. Yes, we all miss balks and then stew over the reality of it. Warning a guy after that is just as awful. Call what you see. Let the coaches do their job.

I find it particularly funny that a number of threads involve members who insist that they aren't paid to coach and bemoan leagues that require explanations for balks, INT, OBS, etc. Now, they are silent. Hmmmm.

Yes Bob, we all have tolerances for what is ethical and not. As with many things in umpiring, acceptable behavior is evolving. At one time, you could argue just as vehemently as the antagonist. At one time, you could simply make your call and ignore the call for getting assistance. Old school, unwritten rules are slowly falling away from upper level baseball. You won't see a CWS umpire pick and choose which rules are worthy of enforcement. Those are the guys I emulate.

I'll agree that Tim's response may have been ambiguous. But RichMSN pretty clearly is saying (I've put it in italics) that he'll warn a pitcher only when he is pitching legally. Are you going to continue to characterize this as warning pitchers instead of calling balks?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

I understand. That is why I posted exactly what Tim and RichMSN wrote regarding non-balk coaching. Maybe it isn't too late for your parents to get a refund from your reading teachers.

I thought you were able to disagree without demeaning others?

I think we both read it the same, and have differing opinions on whether it's ok. Frankly, I was responding to this statement, which lead me to think you mis-read Rich and thought he was letting balks go uncalled in the name of preventative preventive officiating:

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

He should have just caused the balk. If you see a poor stop, call it, don't coach. End of story.

Perhaps you were just unclear.

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I thought you were able to disagree without demeaning others?

Since you chose to engage in that behavior, I saw no need to continue to take the high road.

When I first posted here, others took my desire to be nice as a sign of weakness or inexperience. Since then, I choose to state my opinion, support it with rule or manual corroboration or offer personal experience. I don't claim to be better than anyone here nor do I delight in ridiculing those who admit mistakes in umpiring. Some on this forum write as if they have never missed a call. I happily admit that I am still learning and make mistakes, some crucial, while officiating. As for my repsonse, I will give what I get. Being nice seems to not work on this forum.

[asdf]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

I happily admit that I am still learning and make mistakes, some crucial, while officiating.

Good, then you'll learn from this mistake.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Since you chose to engage in that behavior, I saw no need to continue to take the high road.

Really? Sir, you jumped off the high road long ago and landed on the high horse. I've got no problem with it, hell, I live on a high horse. Just don't try lecturing me about the high road, you aren't qualified.

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

At the risk of seeing another ramble and going against multiple PMs asking me not to engage you in logical debate, here goes nothing.

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Jeff, this is my last post to you regarding thsi topic. You will undoubtedly take the last word.

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Communicating with contestants is far different than giving one an advantage over another. I would rather emulate the best than accept the actions of those who violate ethics and rules.

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

I do. This was a HS game. Read the NFHS Code of Ethics in the current rule book - umpires who give one team an advantage over another have violated that covenant and displayed poor integrity and ethics. Again, I offer the play involving an umpire telling a defensive player to warn the pitcher that he will be called for a balk unless he changes his delivery. That play has been mentioned numerous times as acceptable.

Again, this is not what was offered. Everyone I read on this has stated, if the pitcher balks, they'll call it. What was said is, as the pitcher's movements get closer to a balk, but before they cross the line, they've been known to give a quiet warning. Now I'm back to questioning whether you're even reading the posts you're so fired up about.

As for your insistence that other sports aren't relevant; the NFHS doesn't do just baseball. Are you saying that I'm cheating when I remind a player to get out of the lane, or tell a coach that his assistant coach is about to earn a technical foul? Isn't the code of ethics the same for basketball and baseball?