Home plate appeal costs HS Conn team Championship.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

But I know this guy was not the most qualified to work this game, period. Its nothing against him as an umpire, and everything against the state board who let this crap go on over here on a year in, year out basis. It's an embarrassment to our profession.

Is been five years since I worked in that area and with the official that worked that game. I have no idea what shananigans have taken place since but, I do know the official at the plate was more than quailified to be there.

"But I know this guy was not the most qualified to work this game, period." I have heard this a thousand times and it usually means, why didn't they choose me.

[TussAgee11]

Originally Posted by jicecone

"But I know this guy was not the most qualified to work this game, period." I have heard this a thousand times and it usually means, why didn't they choose me.

Well, don't assume I meant it that way because I didn't. Was actually speaking to the politics of the situation and why in CT our best officials are not put on the best high school games. I know of several officials in this state who are highly-qualified and capable umpires yet who are stuck with an average varsity schedule and an early conference/state appearance.

Then the "seasoned vets" who have been on boards for 30 years and appeased enough of the higher-ups get the big game, despite not knowing where to stand on touches of home plate and simulating out what he saw in his explanation in the dirt like he is in a Pee Wee huddle. That violates umpiring 101, plain and simple.

We as a state should be doing a better job of putting our best officials on our best games. Sadly, it doesn't happen.

[MikeStrybel]

I was working a high school game a number of years ago when we had a walk off home run. The dugout erupted on the swing and they charged out of it towards the plate. I was on the dish and as my 1B partner signalled the homerun, I put both hands forward and told the boys to stay off the dirt. Within seconds of opening my mouth, the HC of the defensive team was yelling at me for preventing an infraction and possible missed touch of home plate. I pretended not to hear him and after the kid touched, walked off with my crew. The HC and his assistant met us at the gate (the only way out was through the side closes to them) and continued to bait me. Only when I got to the car did one of my partners say something about it and he agreed with the HC. I commented that we have been asked to keep players away from the dish and he said that by doing so we are interjecting ourselves into the game. I disagreed but never forgot it. I still do it but much less than before and usually when I know I won't be able to see the touch.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

Well, don't assume I meant it that way because I didn't. Was actually speaking to the politics of the situation and why in CT our best officials are not put on the best high school games. I know of several officials in this state who are highly-qualified and capable umpires yet who are stuck with an average varsity schedule and an early conference/state appearance.

Then the "seasoned vets" who have been on boards for 30 years and appeased enough of the higher-ups get the big game, despite not knowing where to stand on touches of home plate and simulating out what he saw in his explanation in the dirt like he is in a Pee Wee huddle. That violates umpiring 101, plain and simple.

We as a state should be doing a better job of putting our best officials on our best games. Sadly, it doesn't happen.

Wow, that all sounds familiar. Replace CT with CA and it's exactly the same.

[TussAgee11]

If a batter takes a position outside the batter's box as his preliminary starting point, pro school teaches the umpire to instruct him to get into the box.

I see that as a form of preventative officiating at the highest level.

As somebody mentioned, the reason you don't see much of it in MLB is because they are pros to begin with. They don't need reminding. But they do appreciate it when something comes up. I'll give you a classic example from the highest level of baseball I ever worked.

Double play ball, out at 2nd. Ball gets thrown into the dugout. Batter runner is lying on ground with a torn ACL at the 45 foot line. I call time and award 2nd.

As the manager, trainer, and first base coach hover over him, I casually walk over and very quietly say to the manager, "Joe, we're fine if you want to use a substitute here, but make sure he touches first before he goes to 2nd".

Sure enough, runner comes running out right to 2nd base. Manager starts screaming, whoa whoa whoa! Go touch first!

Next night, other manager comes out to coach 3rd, and he asks me about it and is trying to fish for just what I told the other manager. I told him right there "Chris, what I told him, I'd tell you in the same exact situation." And he was just fine with that. Surprising, cause he was a bit of a hot head.

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

If a batter takes a position outside the batter's box as his preliminary starting point, pro school teaches the umpire to instruct him to get into the box.

I see that as a form of preventative officiating at the highest level.

Two thoughts: 1) Asking a player to assume his position so a pitch can occur is not preventive officiating. 2) I have yet to see a pro player set up completely outside the box. When a player contacts the ball outside the box, I have seen that play called several times in the pros and even more in amateur ball. That is umpiring.

Double play ball, out at 2nd. Ball gets thrown into the dugout. Batter runner is lying on ground with a torn ACL at the 45 foot line. I call time and award 2nd.

As the manager, trainer, and first base coach hover over him, I casually walk over and very quietly say to the manager, "Joe, we're fine if you want to use a substitute here, but make sure he touches first before he goes to 2nd".

Sure enough, runner comes running out right to 2nd base. Manager starts screaming, whoa whoa whoa! Go touch first!

Next night, other manager comes out to coach 3rd, and he asks me about it and is trying to fish for just what I told the other manager. I told him right there "Chris, what I told him, I'd tell you in the same exact situation." And he was just fine with that. Surprising, cause he was a bit of a hot head.

You did nothing noble nor unethical. In fact, you simply followed the rules, it seems, unknowingly. Rule 5.10 (c) (1) reads, "If an accident to a runner is such as to prevent him from proceeding to a base to which he is entitled, as on a home run hit out of the playing field, or an award of one or more bases, a substitute runner shall be permitted to complete the play."

[TussAgee11]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

You did nothing noble nor unethical. In fact, you simply followed the rules, it seems, unknowingly. Rule 5.10 (c) (1) reads, "If an accident to a runner is such as to prevent him from proceeding to a base to which he is entitled, as on a home run hit out of the playing field, or an award of one or more bases, a substitute runner shall be permitted to complete the play."

No, I told them how to follow the rules by telling them to how the substitute runner needs to touch the bases legally.

In other words, preventative officiating.

And it was accepted at a level with ex-MLB guys on the field.

If it has its place there, even in limited circumstance, then it must have its place at the high school or college level as well.

[asdf]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

No, I told them how to follow the rules by telling them to how the substitute runner needs to touch the bases legally.

In other words, preventative officiating.

And it was accepted at a level with ex-MLB guys on the field.

If it has its place there, even in limited circumstance, then it must have its place at the high school or college level as well.

+1

This is no different than a coach coming to you to report a change. Said change includes re-inserting a prior substitute (already in and out) back into the lineup.

As the UIC, you know the player is ineligible and should inform the coach as much..........

Preventative Officiating

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

No, I told them how to follow the rules by telling them to how the substitute runner needs to touch the bases legally.

In other words, preventative officiating.

And it was accepted at a level with ex-MLB guys on the field.

If it has its place there, even in limited circumstance, then it must have its place at the high school or college level as well.

That's too bad. Had you simply known the correct rule, you woudln't have had to bother trying to impress or feel good after. If you had an ex-MLB partner who didn't apply that rule then we know why he is an ex.

The ball is dead when it went out of play. He is awarded two bases and most umpires know you have to touch the bases in the correct order, yes, even on awards.

Preventive (spelled correctly) officiating is an oxymoron.

I will relate another issue that arose during Illinois playoffs this year. Another thread told of the matter but details were not present. My partner ejected a player for wearing what the IHSA considers to be jewelry. He claims he issued a warning and then the player stepped into the box with the bracelet on. Fair enough, it was his call and handled by the powers that be. In order to avoid similar problems in the next game, while checking bats and hats I asked the coach to make sure no one was wearing jewelry. It was innocent enough and what many of you consider preventive umpiring. After the game, a number of fellow umpires asked about what had transpired during the series. I relayed the details and had an umpire I truly respect tell me that I crossed the line. He said that it isn't my job to be the jewelry police and by warning them prior to the game I had prevented them from breaking a rule later. He told me to call what I see and not attempt to do what the coach is supposed to do, namely ensure that all players are properly equipped and within the rules of our administration. He was right. I'm simply doing what he did for me - help others understand that old school and innocent communication can be perceived as a violation of our code of responsibility.