1st to 3rd PO MOVE

[UmpJM]

Michael,

Why, thank you.

To be fair, we here in Illinois generally consider his foot to have come off the rubber on the move to 3rd as well.

JM

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

To be fair, we here in Illinois generally consider his foot to have come off the rubber on the move to 3rd as well.

Why not call it properly? If the foot is engaged - balk. If not, no balk.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Simply The Best

Why not call it properly? If the foot is engaged - balk. If not, no balk.

It has been determined in many other discussions on this and other forums, that it is next to impossible to feign to 3rd, turn, and feign or throw to 1st, without the pivot foot coming off the rubber, even just a tiny bit. That is why he is considered to have disengaged after the feint to 3rd.

The pitcher is not allowed by rule to step toward 3rd, and with practically the same motion spin and throw to 1st. Two separate moves are required, and the physics dictate that the pitcher has disengaged the rubber in order to satisfy that rule.

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by Simply The Best
Why not call it properly? If the foot is engaged - balk. If not, no balk.

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

It has been determined in many other discussions on this and other forums, that it is next to impossible to feign to 3rd, turn, and feign or throw to 1st, without the pivot foot coming off the rubber, even just a tiny bit. That is why he is considered to have disengaged after the feint to 3rd.

Then it is probable which is why I said what I did.

Hint: There are many, many others who have seen F1 feign to 3rd in contact with the rubber eventually turning and throwing to 1st. Try it. It's easy! Call the game, don't succumb to accepting carte blanche umpire mythologies regardless of how often they are repeated!

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Simply The Best

Originally Posted by Simply The Best
Why not call it properly? If the foot is engaged - balk. If not, no balk.
Then it is probable which is why I said what I did.

Hint: There are many, many others who have seen F1 feign to 3rd in contact with the rubber eventually turning and throwing to 1st. Try it. It's easy! Call the game, don't succumb to accepting carte blanche umpire mythologies regardless of how often they are repeated!

Let's see here...I've been doing this for 25 years, and calling this play the EXACT same way it's called at every level of baseball throughout the entire world. Not one time has a coach or player even uttered a syllable in protest of such a call. Now you come along and tell ALL of us that we've been doing it wrong all this time. Wow, you must be the BEST umpire EVER!

I never accepted any "myths" about the game of baseball. This is not a myth, it's physics. In order to perform the move you describe, the pitcher would have to feign to 3rd, drag his pivot foot on the ground as he spins around to throw to 1st, and I've NEVER ONCE seen a pitcher do this. They 100% of the time lift their pivot foot off the rubber when turning to throw to 1st. I will let you know the VERY FIRST TIME I see someone stay in total contact with the rubber on this move.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Let's see here...I've been doing this for 25 years, and calling this play the EXACT same way it's called at every level of baseball throughout the entire world. Not one time has a coach or player even uttered a syllable in protest of such a call. Now you come along and tell ALL of us that we've been doing it wrong all this time. Wow, you must be the BEST umpire EVER!

I never accepted any "myths" about the game of baseball. This is not a myth, it's physics. In order to perform the move you describe, the pitcher would have to feign to 3rd, drag his pivot foot on the ground as he spins around to throw to 1st, and I've NEVER ONCE seen a pitcher do this. They 100% of the time lift their pivot foot off the rubber when turning to throw to 1st. I will let you know the VERY FIRST TIME I see someone stay in total contact with the rubber on this move.

I've seen it once, but (HS) F1 threw to first.

The point is, imo, call this one according to the rule -- if (OBR?NCAA) F1 fails to come off the rubber, balk it. If (HS) F1 stays on the rubber and feints, balk it.

Benefit of the doubt to the pitcher, though.

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I've seen it once, but (HS) F1 threw to first.

Likewise.

The point is, imo, call this one according to the rule -- if (OBR?NCAA) F1 fails to come off the rubber, balk it. If (HS) F1 stays on the rubber and feints, balk it.

Correct, very simple, it it is a balk, call a balk. No need to automatically allow any move; umpire mythologies at work when you do.

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Wow, you must be the BEST umpire EVER!

Thanks!

I never accepted any "myths" about the game of baseball. This is not a myth, it's physics. In order to perform the move you describe,

I'm sorry I described no move, you must be confused.

his interpretation of one of many possible moves> the pitcher would have to feign to 3rd, drag his pivot foot on the ground as he spins around to throw to 1st, and I've NEVER ONCE seen a pitcher do this. They 100% of the time lift their pivot foot off the rubber when turning to throw to 1st. I will let you know the VERY FIRST TIME I see someone stay in total contact with the rubber on this move.

Thanks, no need; I doubt you will ever see that move since if in 25 years you have yet to. I have seen it several times.

So you don't mind if I do not hold my breath or anxiously await your notification.